Chapter II: Part 2

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I don't know anything about her except that she was a successful dress designer, I believe, in California, and that she had, and I may say it frankly, that she had a low opinion of our form of government. I don't know whether she is a Communist, Socialist, Anarchist or what.

Mr. JENNER. What are her views with respect to----

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Didi De Mohrenschildt.

Mr. JENNER. That's the second wife?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It's Didi De Mohrenschildt.

Mr. JENNER. She is the Sharples girl?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. The Sharples girl.

Mr. JENNER. And did it come to your attention that his present wife was either born in China or went at a very early age, an infant age--came to China?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't know anything about her except I know that she is part Russian, French--something else, but you see, she never expounded her views to me about her beliefs, but she did to lots of Americans, you see, and they would ask me why? What does it mean? You know, for some reason or other--and I would like this off the record.

Mr. JENNER. All right.

(At this point statement by the witness, Mr. Raigorodsky, to Counsel Jenner off the record.)

Mr. JENNER. What is the reaction of the Russian community in Dallas to the De Mohrenschildts, with particular reference to their political views?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, the Russian community here, it was, you say--"And political views?"

Mr. JENNER. The views separately of George De Mohrenschildt, and then his wife, Jean.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, would you believe me if I tell you that after all this time, I do not know the political views of George De Mohrenschildt?

Mr. JENNER. Tell us about him, what kind of a person is he? He seems from some of our information to be reckless, to make nonsense at times, he appears to have traveled extensively in Europe, Mexico, Haiti, the Dominican Republic; he is a man who has provoked or seems to seek to provoke others into argument by making outlandish statements. We would like to know something from you as a--if I may use the expression but in a sense of compliment--a member of the "Old Guard," and you have had some contact with this man for 17 years now--what is he or what makes him tick?

He had contact with the Oswalds, we haven't yet talked with him, and we are seeking to get all the information we can about this man, his personality, his habits, his business interests, his contacts with you--political views even if they are stated in supposed jest, and the political views of his wife, Jeanne, who is tolerant? Is he just a character?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's a question. You see, talking about, and believe me, that's the only time--first of all, I've got George De Mohrenschildt to become a member of the Petroleum Club.

Mr. JENNER. What is the Petroleum Club?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It is the Petroleum Club, Dallas Petroleum Club.

Mr. JENNER. Did you seek to do it for him?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No.

Mr. JENNER. He was a man of grace at the club?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Very much so a man of grace, a man of breeding.

Mr. JENNER. And did he begin to move in a different social circle?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. An entirely different social circle.

Mr. JENNER. And was that a social circle of Russian emigre, a certain set of Russian emigre?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, no, that's the thing which both churches have against them. He belonged to the church, but he never sent in a donation.

Mr. JENNER. He belonged to the church in the sense that when he felt like coming, he came, but he never supported the church financially?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, that's right, from that point. Politically he never, and I can say honestly, not one time did he ever discuss with me any political questions or give me his views except one time when he went to take the trip--the walking trip.

Mr. JENNER. From the border of the United States and the Mexican border down to Panama?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Right.

Mr. JENNER. Tell us the incident that you are about to relate?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Except one time, you see, except one time--he was elated because he met Mikoyan in Mexico.

Mr. JENNER. And did he report this to you?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You know--just trying to show what--he always brags about things--he was bragging about many things.

Mr. JENNER. Was he given to overstatements?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Very much so, and he brags about the fact that he met Mr. Mikoyan, and this is not for publication, and I asked him why didn't he shoot this b----d?

Mr. JENNER. What did he say--when you said, "Why didn't you shoot him?"

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He just smiled and smiled with that understanding smile, you see, as if I were taking away from his achievement.

Mr. JENNER. Was he a man of extraordinary dress or attire?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Anything but ordinary in attire.

Mr. JENNER. He was not only provocative in his habits, but provocative in his attire in the sense of nonconforming?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He is--he is absolutely nonconformist--that's the best definition I can give you.

Mr. JENNER. Does he speak Russian?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; he speaks Russian quite well with a by-the-Baltic German accent.

Mr. JENNER. Does his wife Jeanne speak Russian?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Does she have any peculiarity of accent?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I say her's would be Polish, but you know, it is very hard to say. I don't think she was born in Russia, I think she was born in France or somewhere, or maybe China, but George's was definitely, because he was born in Russia. Now, to me George--now this is again my idea----

Mr. JENNER. We are trying to get a background on him and we want your idea.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't believe that George is a Communist, because I don't think that the Communists would stand for the behavior of George in the United States. I mean, that is the only thing that I can give him credit for. To them it is a religion. You see, communism is a religion to them and they lead, as we should, I understand they lead the Spartan life, I mean, they are supposed to, but George led anything but the Spartan life in this country.

Mr. JENNER. Did you have some business relations with him?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I had some small stock deals with him, oil deals when he would drill a well and I would buy a certain portion of the deal, maybe one-sixteenth or something like that. He had one dry hole I can remember and one well that came in very small and nothing to brag about and he tried to get me to go with him in business with him in Haiti.

Mr. JENNER. To whom?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. To the banker--the banker--Commercial de Haiti. You can read that and pick up anything you want here and tell me what you want [referring to deponent's file]. He writes all the time--he was trying to get a $100,000 corporation set up here to do business with Duvalier, the head of the Haitian Government in the making of hemp and they were giving him concessions and lots of acreage which you could pick up for drilling and everything else, and he was trying to get people to come here and subscribe to stock but he didn't do anything. I believe that I have reported that incident and then there are lots of Russians here and some others told me about that trip of George's.

Mr. JENNER. Down through Mexico?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Down through Mexico, and I believe I called the FBI and told them. I said, "I don't know whether it means anything or nothing."

Mr. JENNER. Who is Mr. John De Menil?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Mr. John De Menil is a very close friend of mine. He is the financial head of Schlumberger Co. and when I wouldn't go with George in the deal, he asked me to give him any suggestion as to who may be interested, so I suggested John De Menil because the Schlumberger Co. is a worldwide organization and they deal with every country in the world--you know what I am trying to say?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes; I do. I am familiar with the name Schlumberger.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. And that he might be interested in going in business in Haiti, and at my suggestion he called him and went to see him and nothing came out of it because John De Menil finally turned him down after the investigation.

Now, I am very sorry that in the past years I have had some correspondence with George but I didn't keep it, but then when things began to pop up and his name appeared in so many different things, I thought I better keep a file on him.

Mr. JENNER. Apparently this Haitian venture was in gestation or in the works as far back as 1962, is that what you understand?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; you know, he was consultant to the Yugoslav Government?

Mr. JENNER. He was a consultant to the Yugoslavian Government?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He was a consultant to the Yugoslavian Government. In fact, he was sent to Yugoslavian Government with the blessing of our Government, maybe--I don't know under what protocol that we were helping the Yugoslavians, and he went over there but peculiarly, in order to receive the appointment he had to have recommendations of some man known in the industry, and he didn't come to me--I can say this--I don't brag, but if he came to me that would have meant something to him because I was with the Government on a couple or two or three times, but instead of that he goes to Jake Hamon, a close friend of mine, and asked him for a recommendation on that job. Jake said he would not give him a recommendation unless he consults me. That surprised me that he wouldn't ask me right off the bat, but he went around about way. What could I do? Of course I said, technically on the job he is perfectly all right, I mean, he is a good engineer--good petroleum engineer.

Mr. JENNER. And that's your opinion of him?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes, without any question. You know, that field is quite a field--that you have to be supplied with a knowledge of underground structures and movement of the oil, and he had a good job, and as far as I know he quit the job--he was not fired.

Mr. JENNER. Are you acquainted with his reputation in this community for truth and veracity?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I'll say there is no other way around this--I don't think his reputation is that of a truthful person.

Mr. JENNER. His reputation in that respect is poor or bad?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Bad.

Mr. JENNER. Bad, and his reputation in the community as a man of morals, character, and integrity--is that bad or good?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Bad.

Mr. JENNER. And his reputation in the community as a man of capability in the profession which he pursues?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Good.

Mr. JENNER. For example--as a petroleum geologist?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; petroleum engineer--good. His knowledge of languages is good. In fact, he taught at the University of Texas. I believe he taught French or Spanish after he went to school there, where my daughter went, one of my daughters, and my son-in-law also went there at the same time.

Mr. JENNER. What is his reputation in the community as being a loyal American? If he has a reputation?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't think he has any reputation of that type. Now, remember there are two--he is in a different social circle now, you see, than he was before with his second wife.

Mr. JENNER. Yes.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In fact, if I'm not mistaken how he got to the Oswalds was through the Clarks. You see, the Clarks of Fort Worth were his friends.

Mr. JENNER. From a prior social circle?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; he met them--I don't know where he met them, but they were not in the so-called Dallas social circle that he was originally in with his wife because of her being a Sharples.

Mr. JENNER. Do you know of any business interests of De Mohrenschildt in Houston?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In Houston?

Mr. JENNER. Yes; in the last 5 years, let's say?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; he told me that he was going to see Herman and George Brown--they are brothers.

Mr. JENNER. What business are they in?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, again, don't put this down.

Mr. JENNER. Off the record.

(Discussion between Messrs. Jenner and Davis and the witness, Mr. Raigorodsky, off the record.)

Mr. JENNER. Now; I want this on the record.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. George has been friends with many, many influential people in many cities.

Mr. DAVIS. In all of them, I imagine.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Is he a namedropper--is he a man who seeks to be friends of important people?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No--he was my friend, I was his friend--he was Jake Hamon's friend and Jake Hamon was his friend.

Mr. DAVIS. How often did De Mohrenschildt see him?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Jake?

Mr. DAVIS. No; how often did George De Mohrenschildt see Herman and George Brown?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't know, but he has been going to Houston quite often. In fact, he told me that everything is settled--he is going to deal with them in that Haiti situation, and then Herman died.

Mr. JENNER. Do you know of any particular business that he had in Houston?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No.

Mr. JENNER. What information do you have regarding his interests or business in Houston--I take it that it came from his making statements to you?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right, except in his dealing with John De Menil, in which John De Menil sent me the copies of the letters--you see, there is a copy from John De Menil.

Mr. JENNER. Where do you have information as to whether he was required to or did make regular trips, a trip every 4 or 5 weeks, to Houston?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He--I can't answer that.

Mr. JENNER. He appears to have become acquainted with a gentleman in Houston by the name of Andre Jitkoff?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; sure.

Mr. JENNER. He is a professor at Rice Institute?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right--he's head of the Russian church in Houston.

Mr. JENNER. He is the head of the Russian church in Houston?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; that's right--also his daughter is my--I'm a godfather to Mr. Jitkoff's daughter.

Mr. JENNER. Well, give me in a thumbnail sketch, something about Mr. Jitkoff's background.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Mr. Jitkoff--he is of the "Russian Old Guard," as you call it.

Mr. JENNER. How old a man is he, by the way, your best guess?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I would say around 60 now, no, maybe he is younger--let's see, his daughter--he probably is closer--is 50 some odd years--55.

Mr. JENNER. He is closer to 50 than to 60?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I believe so.

Mr. JENNER. Is he somewhere between 50 and 60?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right. The first I knew of Jitkoff, he was a tennis pro at the River Oaks Country Club.

Mr. JENNER. Where--Dallas or Houston?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In Houston; and he retired several years ago and he is teaching Russian.

Mr. JENNER. Was De Mohrenschildt an athletic man?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Very much so.

Mr. JENNER. Is he interested in tennis?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; very much so.

Mr. JENNER. What about Mrs. De Mohrenschildt? Is she an athletically inclined person?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Also interested in tennis?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.

Mr. JENNER. And does each of them have an interest in any other sport to the extent of engaging in the sport itself?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. As far as I know--swimming.

Mr. JENNER. Ice skating?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't remember anything about that, but they always played tennis, you know, they lived next door to me, you see, they played tennis all the time.

Mr. JENNER. Did either of them ever live in the Stoneleigh Hotel?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. At the Maple Terrace. You see, it is owned by the same people--the Stoneleigh, Maple, and now there's another Terrace--the Tower Terrace.

Mr. JENNER. Are these buildings all in proximity one with the other?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; and they are owned by the same people, by the Leo Corrigan's son-in-law, Jordan.

Mr. JENNER. In addition to being an expansive person, is De Mohrenschildt a generous man?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; I would say he is a generous man.

Mr. JENNER. Is he the type of person who would seek, out of the goodness of his heart, to help people like the Oswalds or persons in like circumstances?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I would say he will do it because he wants to show what a grand person he is. You see, that would be my quick judgment. It would be different from the other Russians, you see, because they were appalled at the fact that the baby didn't have milk.

Mr. JENNER. That is, De Mohrenschildt might not have been sincere, while the other members who were seeking to assist were genuine and sincere about it?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Correct.

Mr. JENNER. De Mohrenschildt might be trying to put on a show, for example?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Exactly.

Mr. JENNER. And was he a man given to extreme statements in public?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes. Even though in a joking way. Maybe, like, at a big party--I'll never forget that, you see. It was for the first time I met him. It was at the Brook Hollow Golf Club before it burned down, at a big party and you know. I had some friends of mine, the Jake Hamons and the others, and suddenly George, you know, he always managed to do it, he always said, "There's a spy in the crowd." You know, he would say, "There's a spy in the crowd," just for the fun of it or whatever it is. So, we all started to say, "There's a spy in the crowd," and somebody asked me, "Are you the spy?" And I said, "Maybe," but that's the way he always did--just create some kind of maybe innocent unrest, but we didn't know how much truth there was to it.

Mr. JENNER. And would you give us the reason for that view?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Because he's liable to do anything.

Mr. JENNER. Liable to do anything because he is eccentric. He has no control over himself, really?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's what it is--because of his character.

Mr. JENNER. Would you have the impression that De Mohrenschildt is the type of person that might seek to induce others to do something he might hesitate to do himself?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; I don't think so.

Mr. JENNER. What is your opinion as to the legitimacy of the business in which he is engaged in Haiti?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, from the point of view of the U.S. Government, it is a legitimate business to do business up until now with Haiti. I think the other day--it was the first time that we granted them a loan or aid, but we wouldn't deal with Duvalier, but George moved there--he is there, and moved his furniture.

Mr. JENNER. That's so--in the spring of 1963?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And you have had correspondence with him since?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes.

Mr. JENNER. You have given me a file and it is entitled "George De Mohrenschildt". I have been browsing through it. It seems to relate almost exclusively to the Haitian venture, and I don't see anything else in it.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Here is a letter of June 30 that must have been left here.

Mr. JENNER. Is this June 30, 1963, or 1962?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It must be 1963--yes, it is 1963.

Mr. JENNER. If this was June of 1963, this was before the events of November 22--I gather from your first sentence of this letter that he had been in Dallas?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. After this--that's right; I see it is 1963, after this fiasco here, then he came back to Dallas--which I was called on.

Mr. JENNER. Now, the "fiasco here in Dallas" I take it from your testimony, was the suit brought by De Mohrenschildt against his wife Didi, and that suit was brought in Philadelphia and it had to do with the disposition of a corpus residue of a trust established for George's son.

As I recall, friends of the Sharples family appealed to you, or maybe sued directly, to see what you could do to help out?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; friends of her family.

Mr. JENNER. Friends of her family?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In fact, Mrs. Crespi, appealed to me to see what I can do.

Mr. JENNER. Who is Mrs. Crespi?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Mrs. Pio Crespi is a very well known person here. Her husband is retired; he has a company called Crespi & Co.--a cotton exchange brokerage. She is a close friend of the Sharples family.

Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Crespi?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. What do you understand Mr. De Mohrenschildt is doing over in Haiti?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Over there?

Mr. JENNER. Yes.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, he told me that he wants to get in on the ground floor and he has a connection with the top banker in the country who is the Duvalier banker, and that way he will be able to pickup some "juicy plums" in Haiti. That's exactly what he told me. That's why he wanted to organize the corporation here, you see, to go to Haiti and build plants and help them to develop the industry and reap the profits. You see, it so happened that I believe it is very hard to be a specialist in one line, and almost impossible in two, and my specialty is oil and all my business is in oil. If he came with an oil deal, I might be interested.

Mr. JENNER. Would you say in describing this man, that he has a sort of an adolescence personality, a fellow who has really never grown up?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It isn't a sort of--he is adolescent.

Mr. JENNER. He is adolescent?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. George will never grow old.

Mr. JENNER. But will he grow up; is he lacking in maturity?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He always did.

Mr. JENNER. And things that amuse him are the sort of things that amused us, let's say, when we were adolescent--in our teens?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. When we were 16--that's right--any kind of pranks.

Mr. JENNER. He is a prankster?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes, sir. And he does it so engagingly. I mean, his laugh is a genuine laugh and if you ever heard his laugh--he enjoys it. You see, it is a genuine laugh and of course that is very, very effective, you know, as far as other people are concerned.

Mr. DAVIS. Would you say he is very distinct----

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. There is no word for that--very engaging, I suppose would be the nearest.

Mr. JENNER. I think you mentioned, but I failed to pursue it, I think De Mohrenschildt sought to borrow money from you, did he, in 1963?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Occasionally.

Mr. JENNER. In connection with the Haitian venture?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No.

Mr. JENNER. He did not?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; he sought to have me to participate in the deal.

Mr. JENNER. And you did or didn't?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I did not.

Mr. JENNER. And that was to be what kind of a deal?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, it is a corporation--here is a chart of what he was planning to do.

(Handed instrument to Counsel Jenner.)

Mr. JENNER. Now, you have exhibited to me a chart that you have taken from your file. There is handwriting on the chart--is that George De Mohrenschildt's handwriting?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Did he send that chart to you?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; here's the envelope.

Mr. JENNER. And have you attached to the chart the envelope in which the chart was transmitted to you, and it is postmarked September 12, 1962, at Dallas, Tex., and is this an outline?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Of what he plans to do there.

Mr. JENNER. Of what he planned to do?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You see, "Port-au-Prince, August 27, 1962." He shows he will have group insurance, cheap housing development, banking, cotton gin, electric powerplant, import franchise, spinning mill, weaving plant for cotton mill, and he puts down here "credits available for these industries."

Mr. JENNER. Do you have any information that he is surveying the physical characteristics of the surface? Of the entire Haitian area.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, that's what my understanding was, that that is how he got in so close to them--because it was one of his consulting jobs.

Mr. JENNER. For the Haitian Government?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. For the Haitian Government.

Mr. JENNER. Is he still engaged on that; do you know, or are you informed?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't know--I am not informed.

Mr. JENNER. Is it your impression that his Haitian proposal was legitimate, that is, a legitimate speculation or otherwise. What I am getting at, in other words, that it was not anything of an ulterior character?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, here's some more of the same thing, which I think might be helpful. Here's what information which they send to John De Menil.

Mr. JENNER. Which he was sending to John De Menil?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It's a copy for me.

Mr. JENNER. It is to John De Menil?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.

Mr. JENNER. Would I have your permission to have these documents in your file duplicated?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, sure.

Mr. JENNER. I'll tell you what would be helpful to me--if you would have your secretary restore the file, because you have been generously pulling documents out of it, and if she will restore it to the order in which it was originally?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. All right.

Mr. JENNER. Then I will be able to go through it with you.

(At this point the witness, Mr. Raigorodsky, called his secretary, Mrs. Louise Meek, into the deposing office, giving her the instructions to comply with Counsel Jenner's request, and after leaving the deposing office and returning thereto shortly with the file in the order as requested, Mrs. Meek then departed the deposing room and the deposition continued as follows:)

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. This shows the Haitian holding company. It shows what they are trying to do. There is correspondence with the bank and everything.

Mr. JENNER. There were two files there, as I recall it.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You can have them both--the other one is on the well operation.

Mr. JENNER. Oh, I understand. You were participating with him in some drilling?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And they were either dry holes or they didn't amount to anything?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. One dry hole and one other. I want to ask you something?

Mr. JENNER. All right.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Have you ever talked to Mr. H. Gordon Calder. Mr. H. Gordon Calder is an oil man in Shreveport, La. He is a close friend of mine; in fact, he probably was the first friend I had in this country. We went to the University of Texas together. That's over 40 years ago. His last job before he quit, he was the head of the Southern Production Co., quite a large organization, and George has been working on several oil deals with Gordon Calder, and Gordon Calder has been more in contact with George than I have in the last several years. I see that Gordon Calder was in this well too; my office has the telephone number and address of Mr. Calder, in fact, if necessary, I can call him and he will come over here.

Mr. JENNER. Do you know whether Professor Jitkoff is acquainted with De Mohrenschildt?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, I'm sure he is.

Mr. JENNER. You are acquainted with Basil Zavoico?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Who is he?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Basil--he is a Russian. His father was a general in the Russian Army. He has a brother. Basil Zavoico has been--his primary business has been what I would say is a bank and insurance consultant on oil matters. He has been with Prudential Insurance Co.; he has been with Chase National Bank. He was their consultant; and he has been in a business of his own mostly connected with oil financing.

Mr. JENNER. Did he at one time reside in Dallas?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; he resided in Houston.

Mr. JENNER. Do you know whether he would be acquainted then with George De Mohrenschildt?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; I'm sure that they had some oil dealings. Now, both Gordon Calder and Zavoico probably had more dealings with George than I had.

Mr. JENNER. And he lives in Green Farms, Conn.?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Correct.

Mr. JENNER. And his place is known as "Cronomere"? Is there anything that occurs to you that might be helpful to the Commission, first, in its investigation of the assassination of President Kennedy; and secondly, in regards to the character and integrity of, background and interests of George De Mohrenschildt?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, the only thing I can say that I was told--it is a hearsay--that after meeting Marina Oswald--the way Russians met, there was a party somewhere.

Mr. JENNER. There was what?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. A party--a social gathering.

Mr. JENNER. A party?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Somewhere--I don't remember where.

Mr. JENNER. Here in this country?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Here in Dallas, and at that party, there were several Russians, and they claimed that in walks George De Mohrenschildt with Marina Oswald and her husband. That's the only thing that out of everything that they told me that stuck in my mind.

Mr. JENNER. Do you recall anybody who was reported to have been at this party?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I'll say that Mr. Bouhe and Anna Meller.

Mr. JENNER. M-e-l-l-e-r [spelling]?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; I'm not quite sure--there were quite a few other Russians, but it was George who brought the Oswalds into the party.

Mr. JENNER. We have had some off the record discussions all in the presence of Miss Oliver and Mr. Davis. Is there anything that occurred during our off-the-record discussions that is pertinent, which I have failed to bring out.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; if it was pertinent I would not have taken it off of the record.

Now, may I say something myself?

Mr. JENNER. Certainly.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Would you care to know what my opinion of the assassination is, or is that just an opinion?

Mr. JENNER. All right; let's have it.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I still believe it is a conspiracy.

Mr. JENNER. Well, on what do you base that opinion?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I have read--I'm quite sure everything that you have read, and you read probably more than I did because you have these interrogations.

There are just so many things that are unbelievable, that a person like Oswald, would be allowed to do the things in Russia.

Mr. JENNER. We are interested in that sort of an opinion. What is the basis of your opinion in that respect?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I have studied communism and I have watched them operating, you know.

Mr. JENNER. All right.

(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness, Raigorodsky, off the record.)

Mr. JENNER. Now, I want that on the record.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well--the fact that they gave you all of the record, they gave you all of the records on Oswald, that he was running around in Russia, marrying a Russian woman, that she was allowed to go out of Russia--I know several cases where they wouldn't allow a person whom Americans marry to come for several years. Here, everything was (snapping his fingers) so--just like that. It just reads too much like a fairy tale. I mean, as much as they claim they don't trust him, they surely didn't show it by the action in granting him different things which he received in Russia and in this country.

Now, Marina, I don't know anything about her.

Mr. JENNER. This is your supposition and rationalization on your part?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That is correct.

Mr. JENNER. Now. I have your file----

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Now you take anything you want out of it.

Mr. JENNER. All right. Let's do it this way--I have your file which you have kept marked "Re: George De Mohrenschildt."

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. I will just identify these documents.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You don't need to.

Mr. JENNER. Well, I need it for my record.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, all right.

Mr. JENNER. I am not questioning you.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I'm not questioning you.

Mr. JENNER. The bottom portion of this sheet consists of a duplicate telegram, and the upper portion consists of some French language or what might be clippings from a French newspaper. It is marked with a circle No. 1 [document is in evidence as De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 1].

What are they and how did you get those?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He sent them to me.

Mr. JENNER. De Mohrenschildt sent that to you?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh yes; it is about a recent voyage to the United States of Mr. Clemard Joseph Charles. You see, he was trying to prove to me that Mr. Charles persona grata, both in Haiti and in the United States and was a big shot and here he was sending me some information about him.

Mr. JENNER. The next document is what purports to be a carbon copy of a letter dated July 27, 1962, addressed to Mr. Jean de Menil of Houston, Tex. It is marked with a circle No. 2 [document is in evidence as De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 5]. It has a typewritten signatures on the second page, "G. De Mohrenschildt." I see in the upper right hand corner, written in longhand "copy for Mr. Raigorodsky."

In whose handwriting is that notation?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. His.

Mr. JENNER. That is in George De Mohrenschildt's handwriting?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Did he send that carbon copy of a letter to you?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right, and this was the--outlining a project in Haiti and the West Indies.

Mr. JENNER. And was there an outline enclosed?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And is that the next sheet which is entitled: "Haitian Holding Co.," dated August 1, 1962, and is on the letterhead of George De Mohrenschildt? Petroleum geologist and engineer, Republic National Bank Building, Dallas, Tex. [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 6.]

That was enclosed with the letter?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, this is the letter and then this is the outline, and besides that, you see, here is the outline of what he planned.

Mr. JENNER. The outline to which he refers is set forth in the two-page carbon copy of a letter I have heretofore identified?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And there's also enclosed with it what appears to be the mimeographed one piece sheet I have described, dated August 1, 1962, that has the mimeographed signature at the bottom, "G. De Mohrenschildt." Is that his signature?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. These documents were transmitted to you. Did you save the envelope?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And is the envelope clipped to the letter in the file? [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 3.]

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, this looks like it.

Mr. JENNER. And Mr. De Mohrenschildt addressed it to you, is that in his handwriting?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And that's August 1962?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's it.

Mr. JENNER. Then, next is a letter on a letterhead of--would you read that for me?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, yes; it is the Banque Commerciale D'Haiti.

Mr. JENNER. And it is dated July 31, 1962. It is addressed to Mr. De Mohrenschildt, a typewritten signature of "Clemard Joseph Charles." This seems to be a duplicated letter. [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 2.]

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It's a photostat.

Mr. JENNER. Did Mr. De Mohrenschildt send that to you?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. On or about July 31, 1962, or shortly thereafter.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. The next document consists of--it looks like an organization chart? [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 10.]

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It isn't quite an organization chart, it is the chart of the different projects that he planned to have in Haiti.

Mr. JENNER. And here again there is some longhand writing in ink.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Is that De Mohrenschildt's writing?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And his signature?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.

Mr. JENNER. And he also has written on there "Dallas, September 11, 1962."

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.

Mr. JENNER. Did you retain the envelope [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 8], in which that document, marked with a circled No. 5, was transmitted to you, too?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And is it the next document which in turn is clipped to what I called an organizational chart? [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 10.] And just a diagram?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Did anything else accompany that diagram?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, I'm quite sure nothing.

Mr. JENNER. Next is a photostatic copy of a telegram. [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 7]. It appears addressed to Lt.--is that what that is?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, no; that's De Mohrenschildt.

Mr. JENNER. It should have been "De" Mohrenschildt and it is "Lt. Mohrenschildt, 6628 Dickens, Dallas."

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. It has a signature by "Tardieu". How did you come by that?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He sent it to me.

Mr. JENNER. De Mohrenschildt?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. The next document [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 16], appears to be a copy of a letter on August 7, 1963, addressed to "Mr. Jean de Menil," with a typewritten signature "George De Mohrenschildt." On the face of that document appears more handwriting--do you recognize the handwriting?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Sure.

Mr. JENNER. Whose is it?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It's signed by George.

Mr. JENNER. It's George De Mohrenschildt?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And the "Dear Paul," in the footnote at the bottom of that letter is you?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And the memorandum is for you?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And that includes his handwriting on a notation in the upper right hand corner, "Copy for Mr. Paul Raigorodsky", correct?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Correct.

Mr. JENNER. The next appears to be the original of a letter on blue stationery, the letterhead of which is "3363 San Felipe Road, Houston, Tex." It has a typewritten signature, "John de Menil" and then apparently is signed by a secretary, and it is addressed to you, is it?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; and he investigated it later.

Mr. JENNER. And he is making a report to you and also then decided he is not interested?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. But read this.

Mr. JENNER. All right.

"Dear Paul:

George De Mohrenschildt is a nice man, but I do not think his
project is very well cooked. It is slightly visionary and not
specific at all. This, of course, is my own personal reaction
which I am giving you for your confidential information. It was
also the reaction of my friend on Wall Street to whom I talked
in the hope that perhaps he could get something out of the idea
of George De Mohrenschildt.

With kinds regards and best wishes,

Yours sincerly,

/S/ JOHN DE MENIL
cp
John de Menil

JdM:cp

Dictated by Mr. de Menil over the telephone from New York."

The next document is a carbon copy of a letter dated August 8, 1962, with the typewritten signature of John de Menil. [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 9.] It is addressed to Mr. George De Mohrenschildt in Dallas. You received that, did you?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And it was transmitted to you by Mr. de Menil's secretary; is that correct?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.

Mr. JENNER. The next is also a carbon copy--this is a letter to Mr. George De Mohrenschildt from Mr. John de Menil and it is dated August 27, 1962, with a copy to Paul Raigorodsky. [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 10-B.]

From whom did you receive that?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. From Mr. de Menil.

Mr. JENNER. And then we have an envelope and a card enclosed. The envelope [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 10], is postmarked in New York May 11, 1963. The envelope is addressed to Mr. Paul M. Raigorodsky, First National Building, Dallas, Tex.

Do you recognize the handwriting?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Sure.

Mr. JENNER. On the bottom of the envelope and the enclosed card [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 10-A]?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And is that [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 10-A] in Mr. De Mohrenschildt's handwriting?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And was it a card enclosed in that envelope?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. The next is an original of a letter addressed to Raigorodsky, dated June 6, 1963, signed, "Jeanne and George de M." [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 11.]

Is that George De Mohrenschildt?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Is everything that is in handwriting on the face of that letter in his handwriting?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And you received that in due course?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. All right.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. This was written from Port-au-Prince.

Mr. JENNER. It was written on the stationery of a hotel, Hotel Sans Souci. Port-au-Prince, Haiti. [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 11-A.]

The next document is an original letter from the De Mohrenschildts, it is a typewritten letter and is signed, "George and Jeanne" over the typewritten signature "Jeanne and George De Mohrenschildt," and is addressed to "Dear Paul." Up here in the right hand corner is "Port-au-Prince, September 12, 1963, c/o American Embassy." [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 9.]

That is a letter to you, is it?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. You received it in due course?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. There is attached to the letter an envelope addressed to you, it looks like that is his handwriting?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, that George's handwriting.

Mr. JENNER. And is that the envelope in which the letter of September 12, 1963, was enclosed?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, I'm sure it is.

Mr. JENNER. Is that correct?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Correct.

Mr. JENNER. Now, Mr. Raigorodsky has handed me an envelope postmarked in New York, May 18, 1963, to which he has made reference in his testimony. It is addressed to Mr. Paul M. Raigorodsky, and it looks like fifth floor, First National Bank Building, Dallas, Tex., and it has a stamp on it, "May 20, 1963." That is a rubber stamp imprinted, accompanying this envelope, and there is handed to me his longhand note on "Racquet & Tennis Club" imprinted card, dated in longhand, "May 18, 1963." [Raigorodsky Exhibits Nos. 14 and 14-A, respectively.]

It begins, "Dear Paul," and is signed by "Geo. De M."

Mr. Raigorodsky, are this envelope and card in Mr. De Mohrenschildt's handwriting?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, they are.

Mr. JENNER. And was the card enclosed in the envelope here?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, and here is another letter.

Mr. JENNER. Mr. Raigorodsky has handed me another letter written on both sides, entirely on both sides in longhand, dated June 30, at Miami, and signed "Jeanne and George De M.". [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 4.]

Do you recognize the handwriting on each side of that letter, Mr. Raigorodsky?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Whose is it?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. De Mohrenschildt's.

Mr. JENNER. And did you receive it in due course subsequent to June 30--of what year?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. 1963. This is very interesting--this is a map of Haiti. You see where he sent me--he said "Our Shada Concession."

Mr. JENNER. Mr. Raigorodsky, has opened up a Texaco map of Haiti, [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 11] Republica Dominicana on the face of the map--there is handwriting--do you recognize that handwriting?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; that's George De Mohrenschildt's.

Mr. JENNER. Did you receive that from him?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I can't answer that--it probably is mentioned in one of the letters.

Mr. JENNER. One of the letters I have identified?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. But all of that is his handwriting?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; and you see, he has written in here "Oil possibilities Mellon Concession" and "Our Shada Concession."

Mr. JENNER. What is "Shada"?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's where he claims he had the concessions for the hemp.

Mr. JENNER. For hemp or sisal there?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; sisal.

Mr. JENNER. These things will all show up on any photostat immediately of this?

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Sure.

Mr. JENNER. Now, I state for the record, Mr. Raigorodsky, has authorized us to make a copy of papers I have identified and identified them in the record, so one thing is helpful--I don't have to go to the trouble of preparing a receipt because you have it in the record, and secondly, in the event--if we seek to question Mr. De Mohrenschildt I will have these documents identified as to their authenticity by way of this questioning of you.

Thank you very much, sir, you have been extremely patient and I would like the record to show that Mr. Raigorodsky appeared voluntarily, also he has a very bad cold which has been quite obvious and came to the U.S. attorney's office about 10:30 a.m. and then we repaired to here, his office, and it is now 2:15 in the afternoon and he has been under questioning during that whole period of time. I appreciate this personally and I know the Commission will. I offer in evidence the foregoing documents as Raigorodsky Exhibits Nos. 9, 10, 10-A, 10-B, 11, 11-A, 14, and 14A.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I hope to help you in some way, but I'm just as lost at this moment as I was then.

Mr. JENNER. Well, you have been very helpful throughout this.

Mr. Raigorodsky, Miss Oliver, the reporter, will transcribe this deposition possibly during the course of the week, if not, it will be ready next week, and you have the right to read it and make some corrections, suggestions or additions, and to sign it. That is a privilege that is accorded you, if you wish to examine it. You may also have a copy by purchase of a copy from Miss Oliver and whatever your deposition is with respect to all these alternatives.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I would like to have a copy for sure, and I may, when you might note in spelling in some of the names, I will be glad to help you with that if you will call me on the phone before you put it down.

Mr. JENNER. All right, we thank you very much.

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. All right, thank you.

TESTIMONY OF MRS. THOMAS M. RAY (NATALIE)

The testimony of Mrs. Thomas M. Ray (Natalie) was taken at 11 a.m., on March 25, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Robert T. Davis, assistant attorney general of Texas, was present.

Mr. LIEBELER. Come in Mr. and Mrs. Ray and sit down.

Mr. RAY. We didn't get your letter until Monday because you addressed it to Blossom, Tex. We are on mailing Route 3, Detroit, Tex., and we are on the Blossom, Tex., telephone exchange.

Mr. LIEBELER. Oh, I'm sorry. You are supposed to have 3 days' notice.

Mr. RAY. That's all right. We're here now.

Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Ray, I would like to take your testimony at this time. Would you rise and raise your right hand and I will swear you before we start.

(Witness complying.)

Mr. LIEBELER. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give here will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mrs. RAY. I do.

Mr. LIEBELER. My name is Wesley J. Liebeler. I am a member of the legal staff of the President's Commission investigating the assassination of President Kennedy. Staff members have been authorized to take the testimony of witnesses by the Commission pursuant to authority granted to the Commission by Executive Order 11130 dated November 29, 1963, and Joint Resolution of Congress No. 137.

I believe Mr. Rankin sent you a letter last week?

Mrs. RAY. Yes; and I read it and have your name, too.

Mr. LIEBELER. He sent with that letter copies of the Executive order and the joint resolution as well as copies of the rules and procedure governing the taking of testimony of witnesses. Did you receive that letter and copies of such documents?

Mrs. RAY. Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER. Mr. Ray previously mentioned that the letter was routed to the wrong post office box and you did not get it until Sunday.

Mrs. RAY. Monday.

Mr. LIEBELER. Under the rules of the Commission each witness is entitled to 3 days' notice before he has to testify and I suppose technically since you did not get the letter until Monday you do not have to testify today or you can waive that notice, and I presume you are willing to go ahead with the questioning at this time; is that correct?

Mrs. RAY. Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER. We want to inquire of you today, Mrs. Ray, concerning the events at a party at the home of Mr. and Mrs. Declan P. Ford which was held in Dallas in December 1962, as the events at that party related to or involved Lee Harvey Oswald. We also want to question you about meetings and/or parties that you went to at other places in Dallas during the period shortly after December 28, 1962. Before we get into that, would you state your full name for the record?

Mrs. RAY. Me?

Mr. LIEBELER. Yes; what is your full name?

Mrs. RAY. Natalie.

Mr. LIEBELER. And your last name is----

Mrs. RAY. Ray.

Mr. LIEBELER. R-a-y [spelling]?

Mrs. RAY. R-a-y [spelling].

Mr. LIEBELER. What is your residence?

Mrs. RAY. Route 3, Detroit, Tex.--here, you mean?

Mr. LIEBELER. Yes. Where were you born?

Mrs. RAY. Russia.

Mr. LIEBELER. Where in Russia?

Mrs. RAY. Stalingrad.

Mr. LIEBELER. Approximately when were you born?

Mrs. RAY. In 1922, May 1922.

Mr. LIEBELER. When did you leave Stalingrad?

Mrs. RAY. Let me see, in 1943, in time war; Germans come and taken over Stalingrad and pick me up and send to Germany.

Mr. LIEBELER. When the German troops reached Stalingrad they picked you up and other Russian people?

Mrs. RAY. Yeah; lots of Russians and they send us to Germany in camp, in concentration camp, labor camp, I guess, more.

Mr. LIEBELER. How long were you in Germany?

Mrs. RAY. I been there until I come to America, 1946.

Mr. LIEBELER. How did it come about that you came to the United States; what were the circumstances of your coming here?

Mrs. RAY. Well, I met my husband was town of Wiesbaden being liberated by Americans and that's the first time we ever saw American people and then they taken us out and tell us to wait until they able to send us to Russia. At this time we been working for Americans, soldiers, something in kitchen or different something, just for food until we be able to go back to Russia and I met my husband and when I met him, well, I lost all contact with home and been told there's nobody at home, no place to go and my husband tell me that I can marry American man and I said, "No, I cannot marry American man because Russia will not permit me to marry" and we did have lots of difficulty to get marry and my husband went to Paris, France, to have permission that they let us marry but they not let him see nobody, just asking where I am. I have to hide at this time because Russia picking up and sending all back to Russia, and my husband find me room in Germany where I have to stay until we get married. Well, they--Russians don't give me permission for me to get marry and later on I have to go up and became as a displaced person and in 1945, there, U.S. Government said could marry to displaced person and I marry my husband in May 1945. Yeah, I guess 1945 or 1946--let me see, yeah, in 1945 because--or 1946. I guess. I'm sorry.

Mr. LIEBELER. You were both in Germany at the time?

Mrs. RAY. Yes; my husband and I used to travel when war still going on, you know, they move and I move with him; that will be something come. We go to Frankfurt; I went with him to Frankfurt. If he have to move I go with him. Three Russian girls, us, together, and I did in 1946. I guess. I marry. I forget now when, I am very sorry.

Mr. LIEBELER. That's all right; that's not important.

Mrs. RAY. War ended in 1945 and year later I married; that's in 1946, I'm sorry.

Mr. LIEBELER. And then you came to the United States with your husband, is that correct?

Mrs. RAY. Yes; well, we stay year in Germany after we marry.

Mr. LIEBELER. Then when he left Germany you came back to the United States?

Mrs. RAY. Yes; I go with him.

Mr. LIEBELER. Are you an American citizen now?

Mrs. RAY. Yes; I am.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever meet Lee Oswald or Marina Oswald?

Mrs. RAY. Yes; I met them at this party.

Mr. LIEBELER. Would you tell us about that in your own words; just tell us how you came to the party and how you met Oswald and to the best of your recollection just how it happened.