Chapter XXXVI: Part 36

Mr. MARTIN. Of course, not knowing how a spy would work or anything, I have no knowledge of anything of this sort, this whole thing shows a lack of gratefulness or something, and actually she showed the same thing with Mrs. Paine. She lived with Mrs. Paine for quite some time. Then Mrs. Paine has been trying to contact her consistently for, well, ever since the assassination, and we have passed letters to her, letters from Mrs. Paine to Marina, wherein she has asked Marina to at least call her or do something, and Marina doesn't want to have anything to do with her.

Mr. REDLICH. Has Marina given you a reason for that?

Mr. MARTIN. She said she doesn't like her.

Mr. DULLES. Do you know why it was that Robert Oswald advised her not to go back to the Paines or did you know that he did?

Mr. MARTIN. I knew that he did.

Mr. DULLES. Do you know the reason for that?

Mr. MARTIN. No. He said he just didn't like her.

Mr. DULLES. He gave no reasons?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Mr. REDLICH. And Mrs. Oswald, Marina Oswald, gave no reason to you as to why she didn't like the Paines?

Mr. MARTIN. No, I think it is because Robert didn't. That is a thought.

Mr. REDLICH. You said that----

Mr. MARTIN. She has expressed that.

Mr. REDLICH. You said that you were beginning to wonder whether this is a preplanned affair. What do you mean by that?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, I don't mean preplanned from the very beginning, but I think probably sometime in December from then on it might have been planned.

We have accumulated for her a considerable amount of money in story rights.

Representative BOGGS. How much?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, on advances, this is not the ultimate or the end result, but just on advances, it is $132,000.

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Martin, you are reading from a document. Is that something----

Mr. MARTIN. This I brought for you. We don't have the money. But these are the contracts that have been negotiated.

Mr. REDLICH. Is this something you are turning over to the Commission?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, that is for your information.

Mr. DULLES. What is the nature of this document?

Mr. MARTIN. It is a handwritten----

Mr. DULLES. By whom?

Mr. MARTIN. By me, a handwritten list of the publishers, and the news media that I have contacted in Marina's behalf to sell her movie rights, the TV right, book rights and so forth.

Mr. DULLES. And the amount they have proposed to pay for them?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, these are just the advances.

Now, in the case of Texitalia Films, for instance----

Mr. REDLICH. Could I interrupt and get this identified?

Mr. MARTIN. Certainly.

Mr. REDLICH. With your permission, we would like to introduce this into evidence and take, a photostatic copy and leave you with the original.

Mr. MARTIN. Certainly.

Mr. DULLES. Would you describe this?

Mr. REDLICH. This document lists various publications, media of communication, and indicating the amounts which have been the subject of negotiation, and the contracts, if any, which have been signed with these various media of publication concerning Marina Oswald's story.

Mr. DULLES. Mr. Martin has said this is written in his own hand, is that correct, Mr. Martin?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.

Representative BOGGS. Mr. Chairman, I have to go to a meeting at the Speaker's office momentarily, I would just like to ask one further question of this witness.

Now, I understand about the business negotiations here and so forth, but I want you to be specific--anything that comes to your mind as to whether or not this woman, anything more than what I asked you about.

Mr. LEECH. Can you give us about two minutes in that room?

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. REDLICH. Back on the record.

Mr. DULLES. Just one minute. This should go in the record.

Representative BOGGS. Who is this individual?

Mr. MARTIN. I have been trying to remember his name. I can find out his name. It began with an "H".

Mr. DULLES. Would you repeat the story, please, and then we will continue with the examination.

Mr. MARTIN. I met a gentleman who is an executive with the Dinkler Hotel chain, and he related the story to me that was told to him by one of their engineers, a maintenance man in the Atlanta, in their Atlanta hotel. The maintenance man's wife was an, or is a long distance telephone operator, and on the night preceding the assassination there was an individual that called, well, the way I heard the story, that she said he sounded like he had been drinking, and that he mentioned to her to remember this telephone call because it would go down in history. He made a credit card call to Lee Harvey Oswald, and simply said, "Proceed as planned."

Then he made another telephone call to Jack Ruby and told him that if anything went wrong he knew what to do.

Now, I questioned this, I guess there are numerous rumors of this type or whatever it is, and he said no, that it was definitely the truth, and the reason she hadn't come out before with it was that it is a violation of Federal law to listen to a long distance telephone call, and that they finally did report it to the FBI.

Mr. REDLICH. The person you were speaking to, as I understand this story, received the information from a maintenance man whose wife was the telephone operator who overheard the conversation?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Representative BOGGS. Was this a telephone operator in a Dinkler hotel?

Mr. MARTIN. I didn't get that whether it was in a Dinkler hotel or whether she was in the long distance or toll offices in Atlanta.

Representative BOGGS. Did this person have the credit card number and so forth?

Mr. MARTIN. No. The person that I was talking to?

Representative BOGGS. Did the telephone operator have it?

Mr. MARTIN. The telephone operator did, or the telephone company has the records.

Representative BOGGS. Do you have any other information that would indicate that----

Mr. MARTIN. No, I know this doesn't indicate anything about Marina as far as--no, it is just a strange feeling as far as Marina is concerned. She is too cold.

Mr. REDLICH. When did you hear about this story, Mr. Martin?

Mr. MARTIN. About a week ago.

Mr. REDLICH. You haven't discussed it at all with Marina in that week?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Mr. REDLICH. I would like to question you again on Congressman Boggs point. You have said she is too cold, you have said you thought that all this was preplanned. Is there anything specific in anything that she told you or in any of her actions which would lead you to believe that she has withheld certain information from you, or this Commission, concerning her knowledge about the assassination?

Mr. MARTIN. No, except she made a remark to me one time that she didn't volunteer anything. She only answered questions.

Representative FORD. This was after the return from the Commission hearing?

Mr. MARTIN. No, this was sometime ago. That was before----

Representative FORD. Before the Commission hearing where she appeared?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes. And it was----

Mr. DULLES. Is that all you had on this particular point?

Representative BOGGS. Yes.

Mr. MARTIN. I don't remember what brought it up even. She didn't like the FBI. She said that. And she didn't like to answer questions.

Mr. REDLICH. Did she tell you why?

Mr. MARTIN. No. She just didn't like them. Boguslav in particular.

Mr. DULLES. But her remark was made before her hearing before this Commission?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. And did not relate then to that hearing.

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Mr. REDLICH. Did she indicate to you she had revealed everything that there was to reveal before this Commission?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes. There again I didn't question her about anything that she said in the Commission. I didn't feel it was any of my business for one thing, and all I asked her is how it went, and she would say fine, and that would be the end of it. That is the limit of my questioning her as far as testimony within the Commission was concerned.

Mr. REDLICH. Will you tell us how you found out about the General Walker incident?

Mr. MARTIN. Read it from the newspapers.

Mr. REDLICH. When you read about it did you talk to Mrs. Oswald about it?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. Could you tell us the nature of the conversation?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, I asked her if it was true, and she said yes, and I also asked her who was with Oswald, and she said no one. He did things alone. And, let's see, she related the story as to the note he had written. He had left earlier in the evening, and he hadn't come home at the, we'll say, at an early hour, and she was getting quite upset with him, and she found this note on a bed table or somewhere in the bedroom, and read it, and it simply said that he might be gone for a time or he might be in jail, and instructions as to what to do in case he was gone.

Mr. REDLICH. Did Marina tell you all about this?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. In English?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. She knew English well enough to be able to relate this type of story?

Mr. MARTIN. She learned very rapidly.

Mr. REDLICH. Do you recall approximately when that was?

Mr. MARTIN. No. It was the same day it came out in the paper.

Representative FORD. Did she know of her own knowledge about General Walker? Did she indicate any background information about General Walker?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Representative FORD. She only told what Lee told her about it?

Mr. MARTIN. Lee told her he was a Fascist.

Mr. DULLES. Did she recount to you, that is, did Marina account to you, what she said to Lee Harvey after this incident, after the Walker incident, after he told her about the Walker incident?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, she said that she hid the note that he left in a cookbook and told him if he ever did anything like that again that she would turn that note over to the police and turn him over to the police also.

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Martin, were you aware that Marina Oswald had given this information voluntarily to the Secret Service or the FBI concerning the Walker incident?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Mr. REDLICH. Did you ever ask her about it?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, it was in the newspapers so I assumed they knew about it.

Mr. REDLICH. And you assumed she had volunteered this information?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, of course now, I was a little concerned to begin with as to how it got out.

Mr. REDLICH. Why were you concerned?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, if she had told it to the FRI and the FBI only then how did it get in the newspapers?

Mr. REDLICH. What was the--you say you were concerned that certain aspects of her story were being released. What was the nature of your concern?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, I was just wondering how that information got to the newspapers?

Mr. REDLICH. Did you ask her?

Mr. MARTIN. No, I didn't ask her because she didn't see any newspaper reporters at all.

Mr. REDLICH. Did you ask any of the agents of the FBI or the Secret Service?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, Mr. Heitman.

Mr. REDLICH. What did Mr. Heitman tell you?

Mr. MARTIN. He said it didn't come from the Dallas office. He said it must have come from Washington. The Houston Chronicle brought it out.

Mr. REDLICH. By Washington he meant the Washington office?

Mr. MARTIN. Of the FBI, the Justice Department.

Mr. REDLICH. FBI. That was his opinion as to where this information could come from?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. Did you ever ask Mrs. Oswald why she had not revealed this information prior to that time?

Mr. MARTIN. No. I tried to stay as far away from this investigation as possible, because I didn't want to get into it at all to be real frank about it. I figured there are people better equipped than I to ferret out information and they have methods of doing it that I have no idea about.

Mr. REDLICH. At that time, however, you were acting as her business representative.

Mr. MARTIN. Yes. Because I had to refute something in the paper.

Mr. REDLICH. Were you assisting her at that time in the preparation of any narratives that she was preparing in connection with her story?

Mr. MARTIN. No. She has never written anything other than the manuscript that she wrote for the Commission. And we have never pre-prepared anything.

Mr. DULLES. Has she had conversations with others, to your knowledge, who have been writing material, Isaac Don Levine, for example?

Mr. MARTIN. The only one would be Levine.

Mr. DULLES. The only one would be Isaac Don Levine?

Mr. MARTIN. Levine told me she told him that her husband was a Trotskyite. Now what that means, I don't know but he seemed to think quite a bit.

Mr. DULLES. Marina told Isaac Don Levine?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. That Marina's husband?

Mr. MARTIN. Lee Oswald was a Trotskyite.

Mr. DULLES. He was a Trotskyite.

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Martin, in what way do you consider yourself a patsy?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, because this, for instance----

Mr. REDLICH. May we introduce this in evidence so we know what we are talking about?

Mr. Chairman, I offer----

Mr. DULLES. Identify it.

Mr. REDLICH. In the course of the witness' explanation of his business representation of Mrs. Oswald the witness has presented before this Commission a list of arrangements that he has entered into or is considering entering into concerning the sale of certain aspects of Mrs. Oswald's story. This document is, we are told, written in Mr. Martin's handwriting. I show the witness Commission Exhibit No. 325 and ask you whether this document is one that you have brought before the Commission and whether its contents are as I have described them.

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, it is.

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Chairman, I ask that Commission Exhibit No. 325 be admitted.

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 325 for identification and received in evidence.)

Mr. REDLICH. It is understood that a photostat of this exhibit will be made part of the permanent record of the Commission, and that the original will be returned to the witness.

Mr. DULLES. I wonder if you wouldn't leave us the original in this case because this was prepared for the Commission?

Mr. MARTIN. You can have the original.

Mr. DULLES. We will keep the original and we will be glad to give you a photostat for your records.

Mr. MARTIN. I have it right up here.

Mr. DULLES. Do you want to read that into the record, it is quite short and it might make the record more intelligible.

Mr. REDLICH. Since this is in the handwriting of the witness may I suggest that the witness read it?

Mr. DULLES. Right.

Mr. MARTIN. Texitalia Films, $75,000 movie and the TV rights, World Wide plus $7,500 plus expenses per film appearance, plus $1,500 per--plus expenses for personal appearance. Contract was signed February 11.

Life Magazine was $5,000, North American rights for Lee had photo with rifle and pistol.

Stern Magazine, $12,500, story serial rights for Germany and Italy only, with a 70-30 percent reciprocal for serial rights in Europe, 70 percent to Marina.

Stern Magazine, $2,650 picture rights on the seven photos with same arrangements as above.

Mr. REDLICH. Finish the documents.

Mr. MARTIN. Meredith Press, $25,000 advance on world book rights.

London Daily Mirror $2,200 guarantee on 50-50 reciprocal for British Commonwealth rights on rifle photo.

Detroit Free Press stole photo and has sold it to foreign news media thereby leaving themselves liable.

This Week Magazine, $1,500 for 500-word article.

Total is $132,350.

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Martin, it is in connection with this document that you have referred to yourself as a possible patsy?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. Could I ask just one moment before that, how much has been received and how much is----

Mr. MARTIN. $50,000 of it. The rest is being held, $75,000 in Texitalia Films they have the money.

Mr. DULLES. Who is they?

Mr. MARTIN. Texitalia Films. But they don't want to part with it until this is settled.

Mr. REDLICH. Until what is settled?

Mr. MARTIN. Until there is an amicable settlement between Marina Oswald and myself.

Mr. REDLICH. Concerning your representation of her?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. You mean they are holding their own money and not paying it at the present time?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. It hasn't been put in escrow or anything of that kind?

Mr. MARTIN. No. We have received $5,000 from Life Magazine. That is in an escrow account. I have a check for $2,400 from Stern Magazine, which is uncashed because the attorney McKenzie who has been hired by Robert wrote a letter to Stern Magazine saying that I had no authority to make any deals for Marina. So they stopped payment on the check. Of course, I haven't tried to cash the check, so it is sitting.

Mr. REDLICH. At this time, rather than go into the details of these business arrangements, I would like to revert to the question posed earlier in connection with this document, you referred to yourself as a patsy.

Would you care to explain that?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, I have put in approximately 2-1/2 months of good, hard work and grief trying in the first place, trying to keep the news media away from her and at the same time trying to sell her story.

Mr. REDLICH. Don't assume we know anything, tell us everything.

Mr. MARTIN. I had to leave my job at the Inn of the Six Flags to properly handle this which was the first of the year. I could not keep going on both jobs. These contracts were negotiated on the basis of my contract with her, which states that I have full power to sign any contracts for her in these fields.

William McKenzie, who is, was hired, apparently, by Robert Oswald, and is acting in his behalf, I guess, although he is using Marina Oswald's name, has tried to cancel my contract retroactively, in other words, just like it was never there at all, and it just happened too suddenly for it not to have been planned.

Mr. REDLICH. What would have been planned? What is the plan that you suspect?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, the dropping of it--as soon as the money starts to come in, then the first thing they want to do is get rid of the personal manager and the attorney who has been taking all, who have been the buffers for the 2-1/2 months prior to that.

The Secret Service was pulled off, there is apparently no danger at all concerning her life or anyone connected with her. So they feel perfectly safe in taking off, carrying on where we left off, utilizing all the work that we had put into it.

This was not a decision that was made in two days.

Mr. REDLICH. Could you be more specific in terms of your suspicions with regard to the plan which you have alleged here was designed to get you off this job?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, I have letters from--one from Marina and one from McKenzie, that requests my discharge from this contractual agreement.

Now they have actually no reason to cancel the contract. I have performed as far as these sales are concerned quite well, and, of course, those are just advance payments of $132,000. There would be more on royalties after that.

Mr. DULLES. Did you sign these agreements or Mr. Thorne or did Marina sign them?

Mr. MARTIN. I did.

Mr. DULLES. These agreements with the news media?

Mr. MARTIN. I did.

Mr. DULLES. You signed them?

Mr. MARTIN. According to the contract that I have with Marina, "You will authorize me and approve for and in my behalf and in your discretion and decision the following: approve and permit the use of my name, photographs, likeness, voice, sound effects, characters, persons for all publicity, advertising and the promotion of any and all ventures desired by you to be undertaken by me and for the performance by me of any appearance or service. You are authorized, empowered and directed by me."

Mr. DULLES. I think we have a copy of this, do we not?

Mr. REDLICH. Yes. You are reading from----

Mr. MARTIN. My contract.

Mr. REDLICH. Yes, just so the record is clear, the contract between James Martin and Marina Oswald is Commission Exhibit 276 which was introduced in connection with Robert Oswald's testimony. Mr. Martin, there has been introduced in a prior hearing what is now Commission Exhibits Nos. 274 and 275, a letter from William McKenzie to you and a letter from William McKenzie to Mr. Thorne concerning the discharging of your services.

Do you have any document which you wish to introduce at the present time concerning that--the reasons given for your discharge, because I would like to ask you questions concerning that?

Mr. LEECH. May I ask the date of the letter please, sir? Give me the date. I think we have the originals, sir.

Mr. REDLICH. There is one dated February 18, two of them dated February 18.

Mr. LEECH. Yes, one to Jim Martin and one to Mr. John Thorne.

Mr. REDLICH. One is addressed to Mr. James Martin and the other to Mr. John Thorne.

Mr. LEECH. Yes, sir; we have the originals.

Mr. REDLICH. Do you have with you any other letters in connection with the termination of Mr. Martin's services?

Mr. MARTIN. One from Marina Oswald.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Martin, you said earlier in your testimony that you were building a public image of Marina Oswald?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. Would you tell the Commission what you mean by that?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, in this type of thing----

Mr. REDLICH. May I interrupt and suggest you don't thumb through----

Mr. MARTIN. Excuse me. We were trying to create in the public mind an image of a bereaved widow and a simple lost girl. And I think we did actually. This was for her, as I say, for her benefit. She has received some $68,000 in contributions, and the image is not all true.

Mr. REDLICH. Would you tell us in respect to which in your opinion the image is not true?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, as I mentioned before about the bible, this is a very small incident, she has received numerous bibles in the mail, and to my knowledge has never read the first page of one, and most of them are in Russian.

This is a small thing really but it is part of her image, that she is a religious person.

She wants to be thought of as we have built her now but she doesn't conform to that image.

Mr. REDLICH. In what way, how?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, she is lazy, for one thing.

Mr. REDLICH. Lazy in what respect?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, as far as even taking care of the children. The children bother her. I mean to her they are a constant upset. When she left our home to go up to Denton, my wife offered to keep the baby there at the house if she liked, and Marina took her up on it and then Robert told her she had better take the baby with her. She hadn't seen the baby for over a week. And the first day she was back she was willing to leave the baby again.

Mr. REDLICH. Is there anything else?

Mr. MARTIN. Her lack of, well, humbleness as far as all these contributions are concerned. She takes it as a matter of--she takes it for granted. She is quite unhappy when the contributions slack off.

Mr. REDLICH. Has she discussed the amount of contributions with you?

Mr. MARTIN. I have kept her informed all along on it.

Mr. REDLICH. Has she indicated that there is some relationship between the story that she reveals to the public and the contributions which she will receive?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. Would you be more specific about that?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, she has read newspaper articles, for instance, that I haven't written but I have directed.

Mr. REDLICH. Directed?

Mr. MARTIN. By giving them information.

Mr. REDLICH. What is the nature----

Mr. MARTIN. To build it up.

Mr. REDLICH. What is the nature of these articles?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, I recall one, I wonder if I have it, I guess I don't have it, that was written by Bill Burrus of the Times Herald in Dallas. It was a very good article, and not quite true, we will say. It is shaded in truth.

Mr. REDLICH. Do you have the article with you?

Mr. MARTIN. Here is one Bill Burrus did that is when she went to midnight mass.

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Martin has submitted to the Commission an article which does not carry a date or the name of the publication in which it appears, but is headed "Marina Oswald attended mass, had quiet Yule", by Bill Burrus.

Mr. MARTIN. That was the Dallas Times Herald.

Mr. REDLICH. Since we would like to question the witness about this, I would like to label it Commission Exhibit No. 326 and ask it be introduced in evidence.

Mr. DULLES. It will be admitted with no objection.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 326 for identification and received in evidence.)

Mr. REDLICH. I hand you Commission Exhibit 326, Mr. Martin. Will you tell us in what respects this article is not true?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, I wouldn't say it is strictly not true. But it embellishes the truth.

Mr. REDLICH. Could you be specific in terms of references to the particular article?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, for instance, let's see, is this where she went to church?

Mr. DULLES. Did she go to church?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. LEECH. It is my partner's church.

Mr. MARTIN. Well, for instance, "she wandered around the secret quarters for long periods of time, sometimes she listened to Christmas carols over radio or television", which I believe is not true. I don't believe I told that; that was just added in there.

"Marina continued her studies of the English language and watched television, including her favorite Steve Allen show". She doesn't even like Steve Allen. And, of course, she is never studying English.

Mr. DULLES. Was this information that you gave to Mr. Burrus?

Mr. MARTIN. No. That is the trouble with newspapers. I have told Bill Burrus that she watches Steve Allen. She does but just for lack of anything else to do.

Now I didn't say anything about the Christmas carols nor about studying the English language.

Mr. DULLES. You say she has not been studying the English language?

Mr. MARTIN. No, she is learning it quite rapidly because she had to in her own defense in order to converse with people. When she was living with us, there was no one there that spoke Russian so she had to learn English in order to converse.

Mr. DULLES. Is there anything else in this particular article that you would either regard as unslanted or untrue?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Mr. DULLES. Could you give us other examples where----

Mr. MARTIN. There is the first one.

Mr. DULLES. If you are planning to comment on that I would like to introduce it in evidence.

Mr. MARTIN. Yes. This will go with it.

Mr. REDLICH. The witness has submitted to the Commission an article appearing in the Dallas Times Herald on Sunday, December 15, 1963, the headline reading, "Marina Oswald, all the pity in the world won't help", written by Bill Burrus. This has now been marked as Commission Exhibit No. 327, and I ask that it be admitted in evidence.

Mr. DULLES. This will be admitted, if there is no objection.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 327 for identification and received in evidence.)

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Martin, I hand you Commission Exhibit No. 327 and ask you to tell the Commission in what respects if any there is material in this article which you regard as untrue or exaggerated or slanted?

Mr. MARTIN. Here is a sentence in here, "She pores over the letters reaching her more than a thousand so far and is choked with emotion by the compassion and support they express", the only thing she did actually was to open the letters and did not open all of them. The only letters she read or attempted to read were ones written in Russian.

Mr. REDLICH. What was her reaction to those letters?

Mr. MARTIN. Acceptance of it but no real thankfulness. The further it went, the longer it went, it seemed the less she cared whether----

Mr. DULLES. Did Burrus get this slanted material from you?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. Do you recall anything she specifically said in response to these letters that is leading you to the conclusion that you have reached?

Mr. MARTIN. That she specifically said?

Mr. REDLICH. Yes.

Mr. MARTIN. Well, for instance, one day she opened a letter and there was a dollar in it and she said, "Oh, a dollar", and threw it on the table, and there are little things that living as closely as we did, you can't really recall the specific incidents but there is a general feeling, and there is a complete lack of compassion as to what all these people are doing for her or trying to do for her.

Mr. REDLICH. But you can't recall anything specific that she said which would indicate this lack of compassion?

Mr. MARTIN. No, other than "the American people are crazy for sending me that money".

Mr. REDLICH. Is that a quotation from Mrs. Oswald? She said the American people are crazy for sending this money?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. Did she elaborate on it?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Mr. REDLICH. Did you reply to that?

Mr. MARTIN. I told her that they felt sorry for her and she didn't say anything.

Mr. REDLICH. Did she make any other comments of that nature?

Mr. MARTIN. Other than that dollar bill. Those are the only ones I can remember specifically.

Mr. REDLICH. Would you continue your examination of Commission Exhibit No. 327?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, let's see, "unlike her husband, Marina is devout. She is a member of the Greek Orthodox Church", that is not true. She was not a devout Greek orthodox. She was not devout anything so far as religion is concerned.

Mr. DULLES. Did she ever say anything about the baptism of her child in that church to you?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, now let's see, she was supposed to have gotten June baptized without her husband's knowledge.

Mr. REDLICH. You say she was supposed to have, where did you get that information?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, I read it somewhere prior to this article. This article has it in there. I didn't give him this information. He got it from some other article, and I recall reading it. And when she read this, she commented on it. She said he did know that June was being baptized.

Mr. REDLICH. Did she read that?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. In English?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. She knew English well enough to read this?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes. It took her a while to read it.

Mr. REDLICH. I would like to call the attention----

Mr. MARTIN. This is December 15.

Mr. REDLICH. I would like to call the attention of the Commission to the date which is Sunday, December 15. You say as of Sunday, December 15, which is a little over 3 weeks after she came to live with you, Mrs. Oswald knew English well enough to be able to read this and understand it?

Mr. MARTIN. Not to read it legibly, I mean not to understand every word of it but she understood the biggest part of the article. I was quite amazed at how much she could read. She can't read writing or says she can't, but she can read printing or typing.

Here is another one now, "she is poring over children's primary readers and studying the Russian-English dictionary attempting to understand all the words and talk about her."

She had one child's book that one of the Secret Service men brought her, and she looked at it and that was the end of that.

Mr. REDLICH. Where did this information appearing in this story come from? Did you tell that to Mr. Burrus?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. When Mrs. Oswald read this story and saw things that were not quite true, did she discuss that fact with you?

Mr. MARTIN. On one occasion, let's see, what was it--it may have been in this article. Oh, yes, about the baptism. She said that Lee did know about the baptism. This was gleaned from some place else.

Mr. DULLES. Before or afterward?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, she said before. Before the baptism.

"She washes clothes for herself and June Lee, she cooks her own meals favoring macaroni and other casserole dishes." She did not cook her own meals. She cooked twice while she was at the house in two and a half months.

Mr. REDLICH. Is this fact one which you related to Mr. Burrus, the fact she cooked her own meals?

Mr. MARTIN. I didn't say she cooked her own meals but she cooked.

Mr. REDLICH. Do you recall what reaction if any Mrs. Oswald had in reading this comment?

Mr. MARTIN. The only one she commented on was she doesn't like macaroni, it is noodles.

Mr. REDLICH. But Mrs. Oswald voiced no objection to your giving this information to the newspapers which to use your expression was not quite true?

Mr. MARTIN. No. "Marina now has the first dish washer she has ever used and she thinks it is wonderful". Actually, she didn't like it but now in most of this stuff Bill Burrus would ask me a question like, "Does she have a dish washer", and I would say "yes", and he would elaborate on it.

This is quite a sympathetic article. "Marina gets up at about 9 a.m. every day." She always got up between 10 and 11. "She asked Secret Service men to read some of the letters to her". I don't recall any incident where she did.

Mr. REDLICH. Was that also a fact which you gave to Mr. Burrus?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

"As the hours and days tick by Marina watches television and struggles with newspapers. These things bring tears to her eyes, pictures of President Kennedy, Jackie, Lee Oswald, Mrs. Tippit, the wife of the slain police officer. Sometimes she turns off the set." That is not true.

Mr. REDLICH. Could you be a little bit more specific about that? Were there instances in which she saw these people mentioned and what was her reaction?

Mr. MARTIN. No real reaction at all. Just there on television.

Mr. DULLES. You started to describe earlier I think when she saw a picture of Mrs. Jacqueline Kennedy and she made certain remarks. I don't know that we finished that.

Mr. MARTIN. Well, yes; she did. She remarked, "Oh, Jackie, Jackie", and that was it. There wasn't--kind of shook her head. That is in this article, too, and that is true.

Of course, this last paragraph, "The agents speak through curtains and she feels hunted sometimes despite friendly letters and packages". I don't think she has ever felt hunted or in danger. She has expressed that opinion. She didn't feel that anyone was--anyone intended to harm her.

Mr. DULLES. Did she ever express any ideas about going back to the Soviet Union?

Mr. MARTIN. She said it once and I questioned her about it. She said she was just--what was it--just joking. She used a funny sounding word for joking. I don't remember what it was.

Mr. REDLICH. Do you have any further comments with regard to this particular exhibit?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Mr. REDLICH. I suggest this would be a good time for recess, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. DULLES. All right. The Commission will be adjourned until 3 p.m., this afternoon.

Would you report with your counsel at that time?

(Whereupon, at 12:35 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)

Transcriber's Notes:

Punctuation and spelling were made consistent when a predominant preference was found in this book; otherwise they were not changed.

Misspellings in quoted evidence not changed; misspellings that could be due to mispronunciations were not changed.

Some simple typographical errors were corrected.

Inconsistent hyphenation of compound words retained.

Ambiguous end-of-line hyphens retained.

Occasional uses of "Mr." for "Mrs." and of "Mrs." for "Mr." corrected.

Dubious repeated words, (e.g., "What took place by way of of conversation?") retained.

Several unbalanced quotation marks not remedied.

Occasional periods that should be question marks not changed.

Occasional periods that should be commas, and commas that should be periods, were changed only when they clearly had been misprinted (at the end of a paragraph or following a speaker's name in small-caps at the beginning of a line). Some commas and semi-colons were printed so faintly that they appear to be periods or colons: some were found and corrected, but some almost certainly remain.

The Index and illustrated Exhibits volumes of this series may not be available at Project Gutenberg.

Pages ix-xi: A three-page list of Exhibit numbers has been omitted from this eBook.

Page 20: "Mrs. Oswald. No, I don't remember that Lee had just" probably should have a period after "that".

Page 20: "Mr. Rankin. Did our husband" probably should be "your".

Page 139: "No, she will probably be home in time to fix my supper?" probably should end with a period instead of a question mark.

Page 176: Spurious quotation mark removed before "The money that came into my home that"

Page 245: Missing closing quotation mark for: 'I said "No, Reverend Saunders,'

Page 297: "And you worked at the A. & P. during this period?" changed to "A&P" for consistency with other occurrences of that abbreviation.

Page 344: "copy for the original. I will undertake" The period probably should be a comma.