Chapter XXVI: Introduction (25)

It had been urged, that if Government should interpose in the present case, as interposition would be authorized in any case whatever where the stock might fluctuate, the principle would apply as well to a fall of sixty or seventy per cent. as to a fall of six hundred or seven hundred per cent. He could not admit this inference. A distinction was essential between an extreme case, and a case short of it. The line was difficult to be drawn; but it was no more incumbent on him than on his opponents to draw it. They themselves could not deny that a certain extremity of the evil would have justified the interposition. Suppose that the distress of the alienating creditors had been ten times as great as it was; that instead of two, three, and four shillings in the pound, they had received a farthing only in the pound; and that the certificates lay now in the hands of the purchasers in that state, or even at a less value, was there a member who would rise up and say, that the purchasers ought to be paid the entire nominal sum, and the original sufferer be entitled to no indemnification whatever?

Gentlemen had triumphed in the want of a precedent to the measure. No government, it was said, had interposed to redress fluctuations in its public paper. But where was the government that had funded its debts under the circumstances of the American debt? If no government had done so, there could be no precedent either for or against the measure, because the occasion itself was unprecedented. And if no similar occasion had before existed in any country, the precedent to be set would at least be harmless, because no similar occasion would be likely to happen in this.

If gentlemen persisted, however, in demanding precedents, he was happy in being able to gratify them with two, which, though not exactly parallel, were, on that account, of the greater force, since the interposition of Government had taken place where the emergency could less require them.

The first was the case of the Canada bills. During the war which ended in 1763, and which was attended with a revolution of the Government in Canada, the supplies obtained for the French army in that province were paid for in bills of exchange and certificates. This paper depreciated, and was bought up chiefly by British merchants. The sum and the depreciation were so considerable as to become a subject of negotiation between France and Great Britain at the peace. The negotiations produced a particular article, by which it was agreed by France that the paper ought to be redeemed, and admitted by Great Britain that it should be redeemed at a liquidated value. In the year 1766 this article was accordingly carried into effect by ministers from the two courts, which reduced the paper in the hands of the British holders, in some instances, as much as seventy-five per cent. below its nominal value. It was stated, indeed, by the reporter of the case, that the holders of the paper had themselves concurred in the liquidation; but it was not probable that the concurrence was voluntary. If it was voluntary, it shows that they themselves were sensible of the equity of the sacrifice.

The other case was of still greater weight, as it had no relation to war or treaty, and took place in the nation which has been held up as a model with respect to public credit. In the year 1713, the civil list of Great Britain had fallen into arrears to the amount of £500,000. The creditors who had furnished supplies to the Government had, instead of money, received debentures only from the respective officers. These had depreciated. In that state, they were assigned in some instances; in others, covenanted to be assigned. When the Parliament appropriated funds for satisfying these arrears, they inserted an express provision in the act, that the creditors who had been obliged, by the default of Government, to dispose of their paper at a loss, might redeem it from the assignees by repaying the actual price, with an interest of six per cent., and that all agreements and covenants to assign should be absolutely void. Here then was an interposition on the very principle, that a Government ought to redress the wrongs sustained by its default, and on an occasion trivial when compared to that under consideration; yet it does not appear that the public credit of the nation was injured by it.

The best source of confidence in Government was the apparent honesty of its views. The proposition could not possibly be ascribed to any other motive than this, because the public was not to gain a farthing by it. The next source was an experienced punctuality in the payments due from the Government. For this support to public credit, he relied on what had been experienced by a part of the foreign creditors; on the provision to be made for the residue; and on the punctuality which, he flattered himself, would be observed in all future payments of the domestic creditors. He was more apprehensive of injury to public credit from such modifications of the interest of the public debt as some gentlemen seemed to have in view. In these the public would be the gainer, and the plea of inability the more alarming, because it was so easy to set up, so difficult to be disproved, and for which, consequently, the temptations would be so alluring.

Mr. SENEY rose and observed, that it was with reluctance he attempted to express to the committee his ideas upon a question which had been so fully and ably discussed. However, as it had been expected that gentlemen would not, in a case of such magnitude, be content with merely a silent vote, he rose to declare the reasons upon which his decision was founded. In doing this, he hoped that he should not use epithets which might be deemed harsh, or language which would be offensive; that although the sentiments of other members should differ from his, he wished so far to respect those sentiments as to treat them with decency.

He considered the proposition of the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. MADISON) was designed to effect two purposes: the one, a compensation to the original creditors, who, during the late war, in times of distress, had loaned money, furnished supplies, and rendered military services; and who had only received satisfaction therefor in paper of inconsiderable value, forced on them by the public, and depreciated by their acts. This class of citizens, he conceived, had a just and equitable claim for the full difference in value between that paper, when paid, and specie. The other object of the proposition alluded to, was, he said, to compensate those creditors who now hold alienated certificates. Each description of those creditors had, in his opinion, claims on the public. The first was founded on an original contract between them and the Government, part of which only had been complied with, and the residue still remained undischarged. The other was grounded on having possession of the paper which contained the promise to pay.

It has been contended that the United States have not ability to pay both. In this case a question arises: What is, upon the whole, most just and expedient? Some gentlemen contend, that it is incumbent on us to make full provision for those who hold the assigned certificates, without any for the original creditors who have alienated them. Others think, that the misfortune of Government, in this respect, should not be felt by either class solely, but be borne by both. That it is more just to adopt a mode of composition, by which those creditors should mutually share in this misfortune, and be mutually benefited by a provision within our power to make; with those his sentiments accorded. He could not be impressed with the justice or reason of a measure calculated to make a total sacrifice of one class of creditors, and full payment to the other class. Such a step could not, in his opinion, be justified in any distinction or precedence which existed in their claims. When it was considered that the original creditors furnished money and supplies, and rendered services essential to the preservation of their country, and at a time when its liberties were invaded, and every thing which can be dear to freemen was in jeopardy and at stake, he could not apprehend that their claims would be deemed inferior to those of their rivals. In his opinion, these circumstances entitled them to superior notice. Believing, however, that the amendment under consideration would, upon the whole, effect more substantial justice than any other practicable scheme that had been proposed to the committee, or which he had heard of, his assent would, therefore, be given to it.

TUESDAY, February 19.

_Public Credit._

The House again went into a committee on the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. BALDWIN in the chair.

Mr. MADISON's proposition still under consideration.

Mr. LIVERMORE said he was against any discrimination between the soldier and other public creditor, who held a public security, made payable to bearer, and consequently transferable, with intent that they might be sold, if convenience or necessity should require it. This had been understood by all parties, as well in America as in foreign countries, and they had been sold accordingly. The advocates for discrimination have not denied this; they have only alleged that the low rate at which the poor soldier or other public creditor had sold his securities was a sufficient reason for Congress to interfere and set aside the sale. In opposition to this, he observed, that persons had a right to buy and sell at such prices as they could mutually agree upon, provided there was no fraud.

A diamond, a horse, or a lot of ground, might be sold too cheap, or too dear, and so might any other property; but Government could not interfere without destroying the general system of law and justice. Esau had sold his birthright for a mess of pottage, and heaven and earth had confirmed the sale. The distresses of the army, both officers and soldiers, at the time they received and sold their securities, had been painted in too strong colors. They were not so emaciated by sickness and famine as had been represented. They were crowned with victory, and received with applause by their fellow-citizens; and although they had been paid in paper, their loss had been made up by large bounties, and in other emoluments; so that, in point of property, they were equal to their fellow-citizens who had borne the burden of taxes under which many are laboring to this day. Let them be called brave soldiers, patriotic soldiers, but not poor soldiers. They ought to be governed by the same system of justice that governs others; but their contracts ought not to be set aside out of partiality to them. The case quoted from the statute of Queen Anne is not applicable to this case, inasmuch as Government had not originally made the debentures therein mentioned transferable. Neither did the case of the Canada bills apply; for, as he understood, those bills were paid to British merchants and to others who had purchased them.

Mr. MADISON.--If paper, or the honor of statues or medals can discharge the debts of justice, payable in gold or silver, we can not only exonerate ourselves from those due to the original holders, but from those of the assignees. So far as paper goes, the latter have received the compensation. If honor can discharge the debt, they have received civil honors; look around to the officers of every Government in the Union, and you find them sharing equal honors with those bestowed on the original creditors. But, sir, the debt due in gold and silver is not payable either in honor, appointments, or in paper.

Gentlemen say it will work injustice; but are we not as much bound to repair the injustice done by the United States? Yet I do not believe the assertion has been established by any thing that has been urged in its support. The gentleman from Maryland (Mr. STONE) acknowledges that there is a moral obligation to compensate the original holders; how will they get what he admits is their due? He is willing to make an effort, by applying the resources of the country to that purpose; but if we are to judge by the sentiments of other gentlemen who have spoken on this occasion, we have little to expect from that quarter. Suppose the debt had depreciated to a mere trifle, and suppose the sale of the Western Territory had extinguished the certificates, let me ask, whether, if the United States had thus exonerated themselves from the obligation to the assignee, whether the claim of the original holder would not still remain in its full force in a moral view? But believing the point of justice to be exhausted, I will just add one remark upon the practicability. The transferred certificates, generally, will show the names of the original holders, and here there is no difficulty. With respect to those granted to the heads of either of the five great departments, the books of the Treasurer of Loans, as well as the accounts of those departments now in the Treasury, will designate, with a great degree of accuracy, and this may be followed up by the usual mode of obtaining evidence; and I believe every security may be provided against fraud in this case that was provided in the case of the commissioners who were sent into the respective States for ascertaining and liquidating the claims of individuals. That there will be some difficulty I admit, but it is enough for me that it is not insuperable; and I trust, with the assistance which the cause of equity and justice will ever obtain from the members of the National Legislature, they will easily be surmounted.

MONDAY, February 22.

_Public Credit._

The House then resolved itself into a committee on the Report of the Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. BALDWIN in the chair.

Mr. MADISON's proposition still under consideration.

Mr. PAGE.--As the worthy and eloquent member who replied to me did not answer the questions I put to the committee, I suppose, he either did not hear them, did not understand me, or could not answer them. I hope, before the committee decide, they will attempt at least to resolve them. I asked, where is the injustice of the State's complying with its engagements made to the first holders of certificates as far as the case admits? Where is the justice of doing more for the assignee than he or his assignor expected could or would be done? Where is the breach of faith in Government, if it paid its whole debt with justice, blended with mercy? Where is the interference in contracts, when the proposition is to comply sacredly, as far as the case will admit, with the contracts between a State and its creditors? I asked, is not the assignment of certificates confirmed by the motion? Does it not give to the assignee the very thing stipulated to be given, that is, whatever sum Government shall be pleased to pay for the certificates, for that was the condition of the assignment? And is not the sum now proposed more than either the first or last holder, till within these few days, supposed would be paid him? I asked also, ought not an honest assignee to be pleased that Government intends to do that justice to his assignor which he ought to do himself, were the whole payment made to him? I asked, of what is the assignee deprived but of his late sanguine expectations? I asked, whether the proposition before us does not rather establish confidence in Government than the contrary? For, sir, to make use of the comparison which has been often made here between the State and an obligor on a bond, what could give more credit to any man's bonds than to find that, though they had depreciated to half a crown in the pound, he paid the whole twenty shillings; ten shillings to the assignee, who had given but two shillings and sixpence, and ten to the obligee who had sold at so great a loss?

It is true Congress may, consistently with the rules of common law courts, pay the bearer and take no notice of the creditors; but were a Court of Equity instituted to decide on the case of certain speculators, how would they decide? Government, in the most solemn manner, pledged itself to make compensation to the soldiers, have they done it? Instead of doing this, certain persons, who took advantage of their ignorance and their poverty, bought up the evidence of their debt at one-eighth of the nominal value; and in some States these very men had drawn what constituted the principal of the purchase with six per cent. interest in three years.

In what does the case differ between the depreciated paper and the certificates? Paper money was redeemed at forty for one, as well to the last as the first holder; the same principle would lead to give the last holder of the certificate the depreciated value at which he bought it. But we propose to work no injustice, we give the first holder, if he is the holder still, the full value stipulated. It would not be injustice to consider the assignee, as having paid what he advanced, in consequence of his confidence in Government, on account of that Government; and that the Government ought to repay him what he so advanced; having repaid that sum, the balance ought to go to the credit of the assignee. I am willing, on this consideration, to call the speculator the friend and supporter of the Government, who kindly lent us when in need, two shillings and sixpence in every pound, to advance to the poor soldier. If certificates are the evidence of the debt, it proves, sir, that the balance is due to him in whose name it issued. This is the day of payment, and we must pay accordingly; and here permit me to remark, in reply to the observation of the gentleman from New Hampshire, (Mr. LIVERMORE,) that _Jacob_ was punished for his fraud, but for his faith enjoyed the promise; even so let us regard those who had so much confidence in us as to advance two shillings and sixpence to the distressed soldier.

Mr. HEISTER was in hopes this question would be postponed for the present, in order to go into a consideration of the ways and means: when, if it appeared that the United States were incapable of making full provision, it might be considered, whether one deviation would not authorize the other? If any gentleman would make a motion to that effect, he would second him.

The question was now taken on Mr. MADISON's proposition for a composition, and it passed in the negative; yeas 13, nays 36.[35]

WEDNESDAY, March 17.

_On Slavery._

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the Report of the committee, to whom was referred the memorial of the people called Quakers, &c., Mr. BENSON in the chair.

The question of order was put, when it was determined that Mr. TUCKER's last amendment was not in order.

The report was then taken up by paragraphs. The first proposition being read,

Mr. WHITE moved that it be struck out. He did this, he said, because he was against entering into a consideration at this time of the powers of Congress. He thought it would be time enough for this when the powers are called in question. He then read the next, which he said was entirely unnecessary, as it contains nothing more than what is contained in express terms in the constitution. He passed on to the third, which he said was equally unnecessary; and to the fourth, which was provided for by the constitution. He said, that he should agree to the fifth and sixth, with certain modifications. Agreeable to this idea, he offered those two in a different form. He disagreed to the seventh proposition, as unnecessary and improper. He concluded by observing, that his wish was to promote the happiness of mankind--and among the rest those who are the objects of the present consideration--but this he wished to do in conformity to the principles of justice and with a due regard to the peace and happiness of others; he would contribute all in his power to their comfort and well-being while in a state of slavery; but he was fully of opinion that Congress has no right to interfere in the business, any further than he proposed by the two propositions as modified. He did not, however, anticipate the difficulties from a total prohibition which some gentlemen seem to apprehend--and if Congress had it in their power to interdict this business at the present moment, he did not think the essential interests of the Southern States would suffer. Twenty years ago, he supposed the idea he now suggested would have caused universal alarm. Virginia, however, about twelve years since, prohibited the importation of negroes from Africa, and the consequences apprehended never were realized; on the contrary, the agriculture of that State was never in a more flourishing situation.

Mr. HARTLEY.--I have the honor to be one of the committee on the memorials, and will, with the leave of this committee, mention some particulars which took place in the course of the investigation of the business. He premised that he was sorry that the question of right had been brought forward yesterday--and was not a little surprised to hear the cause of slavery advocated in that House, and language held towards the petitioners which his experience had never shown to be Parliamentary--he read some memorandums taken in committee, and had particular reference to a law passed in Grenada, which he applauded for its humanity, and truly benevolent spirit. He reprobated the illiberal treatment which the memorialists had received, and asserted that they were friends to the constitution, and that on the present occasion they came forward from the most laudable motives, from a wish to promote the happiness of mankind; that their conduct, so far from meriting censure, deserved, and would receive, the applause of the civilized world.

Mr. BROWN, in a considerable speech, advocated the motion of Mr. WHITE. He enlarged on the pernicious consequences that may be expected to flow from the interference of Congress; he pointed out the effects which had resulted from the interposition of the Quakers, by which the prospects of the Southern States in slaves had been rendered very precarious--and if Congress should adopt the report as it stands, the consequences would be pernicious in the highest degree. The negro property will be annihilated. The emancipation of slaves will be effected in time, it ought to be a gradual business; but he hoped that Congress would not, to gratify people who never had been friendly to the independence of America, precipitate the business to the great injury of the Southern States.

Mr. BURKE entered into a very extensive consideration of the subject. He gave an account of the humane treatment which the slaves of the Southern States received, their habitations, families, children, privileges, &c. He then showed that their emancipation would tend to make them wretched in the highest degree. He animadverted with great freedom on the past and present conduct of the Quakers. He denied that they were the friends of freedom; he said, that during the late war, they were for bringing this country under a foreign yoke; they descended to the character of spies; they supplied the enemy with provisions; they were guides and conductors to their armies; and whenever the American army came into their neighborhood, they found themselves in an enemy's country. Mr. BURKE was proceeding in this strain, when he was interrupted by being called to order. A warm altercation ensued, and in the midst of it, a motion was made that the committee rise. This motion was negatived, and Mr. BURKE added a few more observations on the injustice of the measure of interference, as it respected the property of the Southern States.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) said he lamented much that this subject had been brought before the House; that he had deprecated it from the beginning, because he foresaw that it would produce a very unpleasant discussion; that it was a subject of a nature to excite the alarms of the Southern members, who could not view, without anxiety, any interference in it on the part of Congress. He remarked, that as they were resolved into a Committee of the Whole on the powers of Congress respecting slavery and the slave trade, in consequence of certain memorials from the people called Quakers and the Pennsylvania Society for the abolition of slavery, the whole subject, as well as the contents of these memorials, was under consideration. He should therefore enter into the business at large, and offer some comments on the contents of the memorial.

The memorial from the Quakers contained, in his opinion, a very indecent attack on the character of those States which possess slaves. It reprobates slavery as bringing down reproach on the Southern States, and expatiates on the detestation due to the licentious wickedness of the African trade, and the inhuman tyranny and bloodguiltiness inseparable from it. He could not but consider it as calculated to fix a stigma of the blackest nature on the State he had the honor to represent, and to hold its citizens up to public view as men divested of every principle of honor and humanity. Considering it in that light, he felt it incumbent on him not only to refute those atrocious calumnies, but to resent the improper language made use of by the memorialists. Before he entered into the discussion, he begged to observe, that when any class of men deviated from their own religious principles, and officiously came forward in a business with which they had no concern, and attempted to dictate to Congress, he could not ascribe their conduct to any other cause but to an intolerant spirit of persecution. This application came with the worst grace possible from the Quakers, who professed never to intermeddle in politics, but to submit quietly to the laws of the country.

He had met with a publication which came out in the year 1775, (at a period when the affairs of America were in a very desponding situation,) entitled "The ancient Testimony and Principles of the Quakers." It set forth that their religious principles restrained them from having any hand or connivance in setting up and putting down kings and governments; that this was God's peculiar prerogative for causes best known to himself; that it was not their business to be busybodies above their stations, but only to pray for the King and safety of their nation, that they might live a quiet and peaceable life, under the Government which God was pleased to set over them. If these were really their sentiments, why did they not abide by them? Why did they not leave that, which they call God's work, to be managed by himself? Those principles should instruct them to wait with patience and humility for the event of all public measures, and to receive that event as the Divine will. Their conduct on this occasion proved that they did not believe what they professed, or that they had not virtue enough to practise what they believed. Did they mean to rob the Almighty of what they call his prerogative? And were they not partial ministers of their own acknowledged principles? It was difficult to credit their pretended scruples; because, while they were exclaiming against the Mammon of this world, they are hunting after it with a step steady as time, and an appetite keen as the grave.

The memorial from the Pennsylvania Society applied, in express terms, for an emancipation of slaves, and the report of the committee appeared to hold out the idea that Congress might exercise the power of emancipating after the year 1808; for it is said that Congress could not emancipate slaves prior to that period. He remarked, that either the power of manumission still remained with the several States, or it was exclusively vested in Congress; for no one would contend that such a power would be concurrent in the several States and the United States. He then showed that the State Governments clearly retained all the rights of sovereignty which they had before the establishment of the constitution, unless they were exclusively delegated to the United States; and this could only exist where the Constitution granted, in express terms, an exclusive authority to the Union, or where it granted in one instance an authority to the Union, and in another prohibited the States from exercising the like authority, or where it granted an authority to the Union, to which a similar authority in the States would be repugnant.

He applied these principles to the case in question; and asked, whether the constitution had, in express terms, vested the Congress with the power of manumission? Or whether it restrained the States from exercising that power? Or whether there was any authority given to the Union, with which the exercise of this right by any State would be inconsistent? If these questions were answered in the negative, it followed that Congress had not an exclusive right to the power of manumission. Had it a concurrent right with the States? No gentleman would assert it, because the absurdity was obvious. For a State regulation on the subject might differ from a Federal regulation; in which case one or the other must give way. As the laws of the United States were paramount to those of the individual States, the Federal regulations would abrogate those of the States, consequently the States would thus be divested of a power which it was evident they now had, and might exercise whenever they thought proper. But admitting that Congress had authority to manumit the slaves in America, and were disposed to exercise it, would the Southern States acquiesce in such a measure without a struggle? Would the citizens of that country tamely suffer their property to be torn from them? Would even the citizens of the other States, which did not possess this property, desire to have all the slaves let loose upon them? Would not such a step be injurious even to the slaves themselves? It was well known that they were an indolent people, improvident, averse to labor: when emancipated, they would either starve or plunder. Nothing was a stronger proof of the absurdity of emancipation than the fanciful schemes which the friends to the measure had suggested; one was, to ship them out of the country, and colonize them in some foreign region. This plan admitted that it would be dangerous to retain them within the United States after they were manumitted: but surely it would be inconsistent with humanity to banish these people to a remote country, and to expel them from their native soil, and from places to which they had a local attachment. It would be no less repugnant to the principles of freedom, not to allow them to remain here, if they desired it. How could they be called freemen, if they were, against their consent, to be expelled from the country? Thus did the advocates for emancipation acknowledge that the blacks, when liberated, ought not to remain here to stain the blood of the whites by a mixture of the races.

Another plan was to liberate all those who should be born after a certain limited period. Such a scheme would produce this very extraordinary phenomenon, that the mother would be a slave and her child would be free. These young emancipated negroes, by associating with their enslaved parents, would participate in all the debasements which slavery is said to occasion. But allowing that a practicable scheme of general emancipation could be devised, there can be no doubt that the two races would still remain distinct. It is known, from experience, that the whites had such an idea of their superiority over the blacks, that they never even associated with them; even the warmest friends to the blacks kept them at a distance, and rejected all intercourse with them. Could any instance be quoted of their intermarrying; the Quakers asserted that nature made all men equal, and that the difference of color should not place negroes on a worse footing in society than the whites; but had any of them ever married a negro, or would any of them suffer their children to mix their blood with that of a black? They would view with abhorrence such an alliance.

Mr. S. then read some extracts from Mr. Jefferson's Notes on Virginia, proving that negroes were by nature an inferior race of beings; and that the whites would always feel a repugnance at mixing their blood with that of the blacks. Thus, he proceeded, that respectable author, who was desirous of countenancing emancipation, was, on a consideration of the subject, induced candidly to avow that the difficulties appeared insurmountable. The friends to manumission had said, that by prohibiting the further importation of slaves, and by liberating those born after a certain period, a gradual emancipation might take place, and that in process of time the very color would be extinct, and there would be none but whites. He was at a loss to learn how that consequence would result. If the blacks did not intermarry with the whites, they would remain black to the end of time; for it was not contended that liberating them would whitewash them; if they would intermarry with the whites, then the white race would be extinct, and the American people would be all of the mulatto breed. In whatever light, therefore, the subject was viewed, the folly of emancipation was manifest. He trusted these considerations would prevent any further application to Congress on this point, and would so far have weight with the committee as to reject the clause altogether, or at least to declare, in plain terms, that Congress has no right whatever to manumit the slaves of this country.

Various objections, said he, had at different times been alleged against the abominable practice, as it had been called, of one man exercising dominion over another; but slavery was no new thing in the world. The Romans, the Greeks, and other nations of antiquity, held slaves at the time Christianity first dawned on society, and the professors of its mild doctrines never preached against it. [Here Mr. S. read a quotation from the Roman and Grecian History, and from some accounts of the government and manners of the people of Africa, before they had any knowledge of the African traders, from which it appeared that slavery was not disapproved of by the Apostles when they went about diffusing the principles of Christianity; and that it was not owing to the African trade, as had been alleged, that the people of Africa made war on each other.]

Another objection against slavery was, that the number of slaves in the Southern States weakened that part of the Union, and in case of invasion would require a greater force to protect it. Negroes, it was said, would not fight; but he would ask whether it was owing to their being black or to their being slaves? if to their being black, then unquestionably emancipating them would not remedy the evil, for they would still remain black; if it was owing to their being slaves, he denied the position: for it was an undeniable truth, that in many countries slaves made excellent soldiers. In Russia, Hungary, Poland, peasants were slaves, and yet were brave troops. In Scotland, not many years ago, the Highland peasants were absolute slaves to their lairds, and they were renowned for their bravery. The Turks were as much enslaved as the negroes--their property and lives were at the absolute disposal of the Sultan, yet they fought with undaunted courage. Many other instances might be quoted, but those would suffice to refute the fact. Had experience proved that the negroes would not make good soldiers? He did not assert that they would, but they had never been tried; discipline was every thing; white militia made but indifferent soldiers before they were disciplined. It was well known that according to the present art of war, a soldier was a mere machine, and he did not see why a black machine was not as good as a white one; in one respect the black troops would have the advantage in appearing more horrible in the eyes of the enemy. But admitting that they would not fight, to what would the argument lead? Undoubtedly to show that the Quakers, Moravians, and all the non-resisting and non-fighting sects, constitute the weakness of the country. Did they contribute to strengthen the country against invasion by staying at home and joining the invader as soon as he was successful? But they furnished money, he should be told, and paid substitutes; and did not the slaves, by increasing the agriculture of the country, add to its wealth, and thereby increase its strength? Did they not moreover perform many laborious services in the camp and in the field, assist in transporting baggage, conveying artillery, throwing up fortifications, and thus increase the numbers in the ranks by supplying their places in these services? Nor was it necessary that every part of the empire should furnish fighting men; one part supplied men, another money; one part was strong in population, another in valuable exports, which added to the opulence of the whole. Great Britain obtained no soldiers from her East and West India settlements, were they therefore useless? She was obliged to send troops to protect them, but their valuable trade furnished her with means of paying those troops.

Another objection was that the public opinion was against slavery. How did that appear? Were there any petitions on the subject excepting that from the Pennsylvania Society and a few Quakers? And were they to judge for the whole Continent? Were the citizens of the Northern and Eastern States to dictate to Congress on a measure in which the Southern States were so deeply interested? There were no petitions against slavery from the Southern States, and they were the only proper judges of what was for their interest. The toleration of slavery in the several States was a matter of internal regulation and policy, in which each State had a right to do as she pleased, and no other State had any right to intermeddle with her policy or laws. If the citizens of the Northern States were displeased with the toleration of slavery in the Southern States, the latter were equally disgusted with some things tolerated in the former.

He had mentioned on a former occasion the dangerous tenets and pernicious practices of the sect of Shaking Quakers, who preached against matrimony, and whose doctrine and example, if they prevailed, would either depopulate the United States, or people it with a spurious race. However the people of South Carolina reprobated the gross and immoral conduct of these Shakers, they had not petitioned Congress to expel them from the Continent, though they thought such a measure would be serviceable to the United States.

The Legislature of South Carolina had prohibited theatrical representations, deeming them improper; but they did not trouble Congress with an application to abolish them in New York and Philadelphia. The Southern citizens might also consider the toleration of Quakers as an injury to the community, because in time of war they would not defend their country from the enemy, and in time of peace they were interfering in the concerns of others, and doing every thing in their power to excite the slaves in the Southern States to insurrection; notwithstanding which, the people of those States had not required the assistance of Congress to exterminate the Quakers.

But he could not help observing, that this squeamishness was very extraordinary at this time. The Northern States knew that the Southern States had slaves before they confederated with them. If they had such an abhorrence for slavery, why, said Mr. S., did they not cast us off and reject our alliance? The truth was, that the best informed part of the citizens of the Northern States knew that slavery was so ingrafted into the policy of the Southern States, that it could not be eradicated without tearing up by the roots their happiness, tranquillity, and prosperity; that if it were an evil, it was one for which there was no remedy, and therefore, like wise men, they acquiesced in it. We, on the other hand, knew that the Quaker doctrines had taken such deep root in some of the States, that all resistance to them must be useless; we therefore made a compromise on both sides--we took each other, with our mutual bad habits and respective evils, for better, for worse; the Northern States adopted us with our slaves, and we adopted them with their Quakers. There was then an implied compact between the Northern and Southern people that no step should be taken to injure the property of the latter, or to disturb their tranquillity. It was therefore with great pain that he viewed the anxiety of some of the members to pay such uncommon respect to the memorialists, as even to set aside the common rules of proceeding, and attempt to commit the memorials the very day they were presented, though the Southern members had solicited one day's delay. Such proceedings had justly raised an alarm in the minds of himself and his Southern colleagues; and feeling that alarm, they would have acted a dishonorable part to their constituents had they not expressed themselves with that warmth and solicitude which some gentlemen had disapproved.

A proper consideration of this business must convince every candid mind that emancipation would be attended with one or other of these consequences: either that a mixture of the races would degenerate the whites, without improving the blacks, or that it would create two separate classes of people in the community, involved in inveterate hostility, which would terminate in the massacre and extirpation of one or the other, as the Moors were expelled from Spain, and the Danes from England. The negroes would not be benefited by it; free negroes never improve in talents, never grow rich, and continue to associate with the people of their own color. This is owing either to the natural aversion the whites entertain towards them, and an opinion of the superiority of their race, or to the natural attachment the blacks have to those of their own color; in either case it proves that they will, after manumission, continue a distinct people, and have separate interests. The author already quoted has proved that they are an inferior race even to the Indians.

After the last war, a number of negroes which had been stolen from the Southern States, and carried to England, either quitted the persons who had carried them there, or were abandoned by them. Unable to provide for themselves, and rejected from the society of the common people of England, they were begging about the streets of London in great numbers; they supplicated captains of vessels to carry them back to their owners in America, preferring slavery there to freedom in England. Many of them were shipped to Africa by the humanity of the English, and were either butchered or made slaves of by their savage countrymen, or reshipped for sale to the plantations.

But some persons have been of opinion, that if the further importation of slaves could be prohibited, there would be a gradual extinction of the species. Having shown the absurdity of liberating the _postnati_ without extending it to all the slaves old and young, and the great absurdity and even impracticability of extending it to all, I shall say a few words with regard to the extinction. That would be impossible, because they increase; to occasion an extinction, Congress must prohibit all intercourse between the sexes; this would be an act of humanity they would not thank us for, nor would they be persuaded that it was for their own good; or Congress must, like Herod, order all the children to be put to death as soon as born. If, then, nothing but evil would result from emancipation, under the existing circumstances of the country, why should Congress stir at all in the business, or give any countenance to such dangerous applications? We have been told that the Government ought to manifest a disposition inimical to this practice which the people reprobate. If some citizens, from misinformation and ignorance, have imbibed prejudices against the Southern States, if ill-intentioned authors have related false facts, and gross misrepresentations tending to traduce the character of a whole State, and to mislead the citizens of other States, is that a sufficient reason why a large territory is to be depopulated, merely to gratify the wish of some misinformed individuals? But what have the citizens of the other States to do with our slaves? Have they any right to interfere with our internal policy?

This is not an object of general concern, for I have already proved that it does not weaken the Union; but admit that it did, will the abolition of slavery strengthen South Carolina? It can only be cultivated by slaves; the climate, the nature of the soil, ancient habits, forbid the whites from performing the labor. Experience convinces us of the truth of this. Great Britain made every attempt to settle Georgia by whites alone, and failed, and was compelled at length to introduce slaves; after which that State increased very rapidly in opulence and importance. If the slaves are emancipated, they will not remain in that country; remove the cultivators of the soil, and the whole of the low country, all the fertile rice and indigo swamps will be deserted, and become a wilderness. What, then, becomes of its strength? Will such a scheme increase it? Instead of increasing the population of the whites, there will be no whites at all. If the low country is deserted, where will be the commerce, the valuable exports of that country, the large revenue raised from its imports and from the consumption of the rich planters? In a short time, the Northern and Eastern States will supply us with their manufactures; if you depopulate the rich low country of South Carolina and Georgia, you will give us a blow which will immediately recoil on yourselves. Suppose there are one hundred and forty thousand slaves in those States, which require annually five yards of cloth each, making seven hundred thousand yards at half a dollar a yard, this makes three hundred and fifty thousand dollars, besides the articles of linen, flannel, Osnaburgh, blankets, molasses, sugar, and rum, for the use of the negroes; now, either the Eastern and Middle States will supply us with all these articles, or they will receive the benefit of the impost on them if they are imported from foreign countries. Without the rice swamps of Carolina, Charleston would decay, so would the commerce of that city; this would injure the back country. If you injure the Southern States, the injury would reach our Northern and Eastern brethren; for the States are links of one chain; if we break one, the whole must fall to pieces. Thus it is manifest, that in proportion to the increase of our agriculture will our wealth be increased; the increase of which will augment that of our sister States, which will either supply us with their commodities, or raise a large revenue upon us, or be the carriers of our produce to foreign markets.

It has been said, that the toleration of slavery brings down reproach on America. It only brings reproach on those who tolerate it, and we are ready to bear our share. We know that none but prejudiced and uncandid persons, who have hastily considered the subject, and are ignorant of the real situation of the Southern States, throw out these insinuations. We found slavery ingrafted in the very policy of the country when we were born, and we are persuaded of the impolicy of removing it; if it be a moral evil, it is like many others which exist in all civilized countries, and which the world quietly submit to. Humanity has been a topic of declamation on this subject: that sentiment has different operations on different individuals, and he had it in his power to show, that humanity first gave origin to the transportation of slaves from Africa into America. _Bartholomew de las Casas_, Bishop of Chiapa, a Spaniard renowned for his humanity and virtues, in order to save the Indians in South America from slavery, prevailed on his monarch to substitute Africans, which were accordingly purchased on the coast of Africa, and shipped to the Spanish colonies to work in the mines: this appears in _Robertson's History of America_, which Mr. S. quoted. At this day, the Spaniards give considerable encouragement to the transportation of slaves into their islands. Mr. S. read the edict for that purpose.

Another objection is, that slavery vitiates and debases the mind of the owner of this sort of property. Where, he asked, is the proof of this allegation? Do the citizens of the Southern States exhibit more ferociousness in their manners, more barbarity in their dispositions, than those of the other States? Are crimes more frequently committed there? A proof of the absurdity of this charge may be found in the writings of those who wish to disseminate this mischievous idea, and yet, in their relations of facts, they themselves contradict it. They lay down general principles, which they take upon credit from others, or which they publish with sinister views, and when they enter into a detail of the history of those States, they overset their own doctrines. Thus, one writer tells us, that the Southern citizen, who is educated in principles of superiority to the slaves which surround him, has no idea of government, obedience, and good order, till he mingles with the hardy and free-spirited yeomanry of the North, and that after mixing with them, he will return home with his mind more enlarged, his views more liberalized, and his affections rectified, and he becomes a more generous friend to the rights of human nature. But hear what the Eastern traveller is to learn by visiting the enslaved regions of the South. He will see, says the same writer, immediately after, industry crowned with affluence, independence, hospitality, liberality of manners; and, notwithstanding the prevalence of domestic slavery, he will find the noblest sentiments of freedom and independence to predominate; he will extol their enterprise, art, and ingenuity, and will reflect that nature is wise, and that Providence in the distribution of its favors is not capricious. Take another striking instance of this contradiction from Morse's Geography. He says, that there are more slaves than free persons in South Carolina, and mentions the mischievous influence of slavery on their manners, which, he observes, by exempting them from the necessity of labor, leads to luxury, dissipation, and extravagance, and savors too much of a haughty, supercilious behavior; that the inhabitants want that enterprise and perseverance which are necessary for the attainment of the arts and sciences; that they have few motives to enterprise, and too generally rest contented with barely knowledge enough to transact the common affairs of life. Now, for the author's proofs: they are contained in these words:

"Many of the inhabitants spare no pains nor expense in giving the highest polish of education to their children; literature has begun to flourish since the peace; several flourishing academies and colleges have been established; the ladies have an engaging softness and delicacy in their manners; theatrical exhibitions have been prohibited by law; gaming of all kinds is more discountenanced than in any of the Southern States; all denominations of religion are on an equal footing; commerce is flourishing; economy is becoming more fashionable, and science begins to spread her salutary influence among the citizens."

But was South Carolina, at the commencement of the war, with all her slaves, backward in her resistance to Great Britain? View the conduct of her citizens, their zeal and ardor in the cause of liberty; their labor at Fort Sullivan. Are crimes more frequent in that country than in the other States? Are there more executions? I believe there have been as few as in any part of the Continent, and those which have taken place have been generally of emigrant convicts, or fugitive wheel-barrow men; he would be bold to assert that in no State on the Continent is there more order, sobriety, and obedience to good government; more industry and frugality; nor is there any trace of the influence of slavery on the character of her citizens.