Chapter LIX: Introduction (58)

Mr. LYMAN hoped that the member from Pennsylvania would, upon reflection, withdraw his amendment. Mr. L. considered it to be as improper to pass a vote of censure, as it would be to pass a vote of approbation. He did not wish to give printers an opportunity of publishing debates that had better be suppressed. Besides, where will this business of censorship end? It would be much better not to meddle with the Democratic societies at all. Some of them were perfectly sensible that they had gone too far. He should, therefore, move that this committee do now rise, and that the Chairman report the Address as it now stands.

Mr. THATCHER hoped that his colleague would not insist on taking that question just now, before other gentlemen had an opportunity of delivering their sentiments.

Mr. LYMAN, in reply, said that gentlemen were at liberty, in discussing his motion, to tell their minds as to the self-created societies.

Mr. SEDGWICK requested that Mr. LYMAN would take this motion out of the way. Mr. L. withdrew it.

Mr. W. SMITH then rose, and entered at large into the subject. He said, that if the committee withheld an expression of their sentiments in regard to the societies pointed out by the PRESIDENT, their silence would be an avowed desertion of the Executive. He had no scruple to declare that the conduct of these people had tended to blow up the insurrection. Adverting to Mr. GILES, he thought the assertion of that gentleman too broad, when he spoke of not meddling with the opinions of other than political societies.

He considered the dissemination of improper sentiments as a suitable object for the public reprobation of that House. Suppose an agricultural society were to establish itself, and under that title to disseminate opinions subversive of good order; the difference of a name should not make Mr. S. think them exempted from becoming objects of justice. Would any man say that the sole object of self-created societies has been the publication of political doctrines? The whole of their proceedings has been a chain of censures on the conduct of Government. If we do not support the PRESIDENT, the silence of the House will be interpreted into an implied disapprobation of that part of his Speech. He will be left in a dilemma. It will be said that he has committed himself.

Mr. S. declared that he was a friend to the freedom of the press; but would any one compare a regular town-meeting where deliberations were cool and unruffled, to these societies, to the nocturnal meetings of individuals, after they have dined, where they shut their doors, pass votes in secret, and admit no members into their societies, but those of their own choosing? Mr. S., by way of illustration, observed, that this House had never done much business after dinner. In objection to this amendment it had been stated, that the self-created societies would acquire importance from a vote of censure passed on them. They were, for his part, welcome to the whole importance that such a vote could give them. He complained, in strong terms, of the calumnies and slanders which they had propagated against Government. Every gentleman who thought that these clubs had done mischief, was by this amendment called upon to avow his opinion. This was the whole. Mr. S. begged the House to take notice, and he repeated his words once or twice, that he did not mean to go into the constitution of these societies, or to say that they were illegal. The question before the House was not whether these societies were illegal or not, but whether they have been mischievous in their consequences.

Mr. MCDOWELL was of opinion that the term self-created societies, was too indefinite. He professed the highest respect for the character of the PRESIDENT; but he did not think that the proposed vote of censure would be any eligible proof of it. The House of Representatives were assembled not to volunteer in passing votes of reprobation on societies, or individuals, but to legislate. He wished that gentlemen, instead of losing their time on such frivolous and inflammatory amendments, would proceed to the proper business of the House. The gentleman from South Carolina seemed to be well acquainted with Democratic societies. It was very true that they had published resolutions reprobating the assumption business, and the system of funding; but the rest of the people, as well as Democratic societies, had very generally censured the assumption and the funding transactions. He thought that some laws had been passed which answered no good purpose, nor indeed any purpose, but that of irritating the public. The present amendment he considered as destructive not only to the intercourse of domestic society, but that it involved a prospect of throwing restraint upon the conduct of gentlemen in the House of Representatives. With the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. GILES,) he was satisfied that the amendment, if adopted, would have no weight whatever with the citizens of the United States; as they were too enlightened to accept of opinions from their Representatives.

Mr. TRACY had imagined that no man would have the hardihood to come forward in that House and vindicate these societies. He quoted from the remarks of Mr. MCDOWELL, the words, "your wanton laws, begotten in darkness, first raised insurrection;" and likewise some other words about the enormous expense of millions for the Western expedition. Mr. T., after reading these expressions from a memorandum, which he held in his hand, declared his surprise, that a gentleman, whom he knew to possess the candor and good sense of the member from North Carolina, could suffer such language to escape him. He was certain that the gentleman, if he had not been somewhat in a hurry, never would have permitted those words to pass from his lips.

Quitting this topic, Mr. T. said, that he would, for his own part, be disposed to let these societies alone, and leave them to the chastisement of their own consciences. If they were to say, "Gentlemen, you, as tyrants, make laws, and slaves obey them," I would answer, said Mr. T., "It is very rash. Think again before you say this again. We believe that, from inadvertency, some things have escaped from Democratic societies, which they had not well weighed, and which had a bad effect on weak and ignorant people in the western counties of Pennsylvania. You have seen the bad effects of your temerity. Take care before you publish any such thing again." Mr. T. said, this is all the length which we mean to go, and can any body object to this? The Democratic societies form but a very small portion of the people of America. Where is the harm in saying that one-hundredth, or, I believe I might say, not more than one-thousandth part of the citizens of the United States have been mistaken, and that they have been imprudent in printing certain indiscreet resolutions? Mr. T. declared that if the PRESIDENT had not spoke of the matter, he should have been willing to let it alone, because whenever a subject of that kind was touched, there were certain gentlemen in that House who shook their backs, like a sore-backed horse, and cried out, The Liberties of the people! Mr. T. wished only that the House, if their opinion of these societies corresponded with that of the PRESIDENT, should declare that they had such an opinion. This was quite different from attempting to legislate on the subject. Has not the Legislature done so before? Is there any impropriety in paying this mark of respect to a man to whom all America owes such indelible obligations? He thought that this declaration from the House of Representatives would tend to discourage Democratic societies, by uniting all men of sense against them. Mr. T. said, that perhaps the member who spoke last might be connected with some of these societies, of which he entertained so favorable an impression.

Mr. MCDOWELL said, that he wanted the House to avoid quarrels, and to mind their proper business of legislation. He declared that he was not a member of any such society. He did not know that he had ever been in the company of any person who was a member of any of them. He was even, he declared upon his honor, ignorant whether there were, or ever had been, any such societies in North Carolina. He adverted to the simile of the sore-backed horse, and said that he believed his back to have been rubbed harder in the last war, than that of the gentleman. He imagined that these societies had done both good and harm, and again declared, that he could not consent to a vote of indiscriminate reprobation.

Mr. DAYTON was heartily for the amendment. He observed that he wanted no evidence to satisfy him, as to the gentleman not being a member of any of these societies. If he had been connected with them, he would have known their principles better than he seems to do. Mr. D. said that many persons in New Jersey, who had been the most violent against the excise law were equally so against the insurgents; and though their opinion of the law itself was unaltered, which they made no scruple of openly declaring, yet they did not, on that account, hesitate about marching against the insurgents. They did not suppose that one obnoxious statute was any reason for overturning the Federal Constitution. The murmurs against the excise law in New Jersey had been converted into universal silence, because no man would venture to express his discontent, at the hazard of being suspected of being a friend to the insurgents. That the Democratic societies had produced the most mischievous effects in the western counties there could be no question. Letters had been received from officers in the army, who were the most respectable characters, and who, from authentic information, had affirmed the fact. It had been stated that these people would recriminate upon the House, and it had even been hinted that their recriminations might affect the PRESIDENT. _That man_, said Mr. D., is above their censure. He believed that if their censures had any effect at all, it would be to do the PRESIDENT honor.

Mr. NICHOLAS.--When we see an attempt made in this House to reprobate whole societies, on account of the conduct of individuals, it may truly be suspected that some of the members of this House have sore backs. The PRESIDENT has been apprised of the absurdity of making this a Legislative business. Here Mr. N. read a passage from the PRESIDENT's Speech, to show, that the notice taken of self-created societies was not intended for a topic of discussion in that House. The passage was expressly addressed to every description of citizens:

"And when in the calm moments of reflection, they shall
have retraced the origin and progress of the insurrection,
let them determine, whether it has been fomented by
combinations of men, who, careless of consequences," &c.

Was this an address to the two Houses? Did this passage show that the PRESIDENT wanted them to intermeddle? Were they called upon to give an opinion? Where could be the pretence for any thing of this sort? The House have made acts. The Democratic societies reprobate them, and then the House reprobate the Democratic societies. When you first cut a man's throat, and thereafter call him a rascal, do you suppose that your accusation will affect the man's reputation? The House, by passing this vote of censure, would make themselves a party, and lose a title to unsuspected confidence. Mr. N. declared, that, for his own part, he never had any concern with these societies, nor ever to his knowledge had spent an hour with any person who was a member of them. He rather, if any thing, despised them. He had always thought them the very worst advocates for the cause which they espoused; but he had come two hundred miles to legislate, and not to reprobate private societies. He was not paid by his constituents for doing business of that sort. The PRESIDENT knew the business of the House better than to call for any such votes of censure. It was wrong to condemn societies for particular acts. That there never should be a Democratical society in America, said Mr. N., I would give my most hearty consent; but I cannot agree to persecution for the sake of opinions. With respect either to the propriety or the power of suppressing them, Mr. N. was in both cases equally of opinion that it was much better to let them alone. They must stand or fall by the general sentiments of the people of America. Is it possible that these societies can exist, for any length of time, when they are of no real use to the country? No. But this amendment will make the people at large imagine that they are of consequence.

Mr. DAYTON said, that these societies had produced the Western insurrection, and, therefore, the committee were just as well entitled to institute an inquiry in this case, as formerly regarding the failure of the expedition of General St. Clair.

The committee now rose, and reported progress, and had leave to sit again.

TUESDAY, November 25.

Another member, to wit, JAMES GILLESPIE, from North Carolina, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

_The President's Speech._

The House again went into Committee of the Whole on the Address of the PRESIDENT and the amendment of Mr. FITZSIMONS, Mr. COBB in the chair.

Mr. MURRAY said, that he did not altogether like the wording of the amendment now before the House. He had hoped that some modification of it would have been prepared by some of its friends; but as none was offered, and there was a call for the question, he would vote for it rather than against it. He said, that he had not been personally attacked by any of the tribunals in question, and no further injured by their machinations than as he was a citizen of a free Republic in whose prosperity he felt the closest possible union, and in whose calamities he of course felt great sympathy. Among the various sources of the late calamity, the PRESIDENT had traced and designated certain self-created societies, who had arrogated the management of public opinions and affairs, and whom he had declared to have been, in his opinion, instrumental in fomenting the late insurrection. Mr. M. confessed that he had feared, last winter, lest the disorganizing spirit which had gone abroad in the shape of resolutions from these societies, would have produced the effect ascribed to them by the PRESIDENT. The conduct of the Democratic clubs, or those of them with which he had most acquaintance, appeared to him to have been instrumental to an event which threatened destruction to legitimate government. If we believe this to be the case, Mr. M. knew no motive, duty, or policy, which ought to restrain us at this period from saying that we believe it, and from lamenting it. Our declaration will rather hold out a caution to the thoughtless, than inflict legal penalties upon their follies. It will present to our fellow-citizens a memorable example of one source of error and political misfortune, by showing them the danger, which has already cost above twelve hundred thousand dollars. He could not see any evil that was to result from an expression of the opinion of the House, by the proposed amendment. It had not the quality of law; for, if a law were proposed for the abolition of these societies, he would oppose it. This amendment to the Address would operate as an advice. It curtails not the right of a free press, which Mr. M. held to be the luminary of the public mind. It would tend to excite a judicious and salutary inquiry among many respecting the just and true limits within which a virtuous and enlightened well-wisher to our country would think it safe to exercise this right. Of the inutility and danger of such societies in this country, he had little doubt. The scene of their birthplace was well adapted to the wholesome display of their powers. In France, where a despotism, impregnable to public opinion, had reigned--where no channel opened a sympathy by representation with the great body of the nation--those societies were admirably adapted to break down and subvert the old bulwark of habitual authority. But in America the case was widely different. Look at the immense body of public functionaries, who in this country are elected immediately by the people, or by their electors, in a constitutional mode, and say whether they are not adequate as functionaries to the public purposes of the country. Including every description of Legislators, Councils, Governors, Courts, Jurors, and Sheriffs, there are above twelve thousand. Of these, more than eleven hundred are actual Legislators, besides the hundred in this House, and those above stairs. These all act in the States, counties, townships, and hundreds, in separate but relative circles, so as to preclude a partial attention to any one scene, to the exclusion of another. The whole country is full of well-constituted organs of the people's will. Many of these Legislatures are in session twice a year, and all of them annually. We might be confused by their immense number, were they not so admirably dispersed over the Continent, and did they not move under the guidance of the laws, with the harmony of the spheres. It would not be easy to organize the nation into a more multifarious shape.

The case maintained by Mr. DAYTON yesterday appeared to be strong. He said that we had inquired into the defeat of St. Clair's army, and so we might into the causes of the insurrection. To point it out to a people so enlightened, will be to prevent it in future. If the House agree in opinion with the PRESIDENT, they will speak their opinion, and do their duty. This declaration goes to the constituent body, through the Executive; and, while it gratifies their inquiries in a point of so much solicitude, it erects a warning beacon. It shows to them the stormy breakers which lately threatened the public peace with shipwreck, and invites them to adhere to pilots of their own choosing, and to charts with which they are acquainted.

If the PRESIDENT had not thought some of the societies instrumental in producing the late calamity, they would not have attracted his notice, nor that of the House. It is because they are believed to have assisted and fomented the insurrection, that our constituents ought to be warned against them; and that another necessity for exerting their patriotism may be saved to those brave men who are at present encountering every difficulty in the West. These societies are not attended to, because, however offensive some of their proceedings and doctrines may have been, yet the rights of the press ought not to be freely handled.

Mr. FITZSIMONS had no violent predilection for any performance of his own. He had, therefore, to prevent so much disputing, prepared to withdraw his motion, provided the committee be willing that he should do so, and, in the room of this motion, he would read another, for which he was indebted to a gentleman at his right hand, (Mr. B. BOURNE.)

The committee consented. The former motion was withdrawn, and the other was read. This was an echo of that part of the speech of the PRESIDENT which mentions self-created societies.

Mr. CHRISTIE then rose. He was sorry to differ from his worthy colleague (Mr. MURRAY) on the question then before the committee; and he was doubly sorry to hear that gentleman labor so strenuously to saddle a public odium on some of the best citizens of the State which he represented. Mr. C. should not have risen on the present occasion, although he thought it an important one, had it not been to endeavor to rescue from public censure a society of gentlemen, who were described in the present amendment before the committee, as objects of public opprobrium. Mr. C. alluded to the Republican Society of the town of Baltimore. If the present amendment took place, that society would be involved in general and undeserved censure. He would, therefore, inform the House of what description of men the Republican Society of Baltimore consisted; and then the committee would be the best judges whether they ought to be rewarded in the manner in which the present amendment proposes. They are a society of gentlemen associated together for the purpose of diffusing political knowledge throughout the State of Maryland, and to instruct their Representatives in Congress, and the Legislature of the State, in any point that they think necessary, and not for the purpose of sowing dissension among the citizens of America, or of cultivating dislike to the Union, or to the laws. This society consists of men whose characters are superior to any censure that might be thrown against them, by the mover of the amendment. But when Congress are about to cast an odium on a particular society, the members of which have every respect for that body, and have always inculcated obedience to the laws of the United States, Mr. C. left it to the committee to determine whether, if they were themselves in the place of the Baltimore Society, they would not feel their sensibility materially wounded? Was not this returning good for evil? He again reminded the committee that the Republican Society at Baltimore was composed of a band of patriots, not the fair-weather patriots of the present day, but the patriots of seventy-five, the men who were not afraid to rally around the American standard, when that station was almost concluded to be a forlorn hope. They were men who, with their persons and properties, had assisted to drive from the soil of America the present lawless disturbers of the world. Are these the men, asked Mr. C., who ought to have all this mass of Congressional odium cast upon them? I trust not, sir. I trust, that if particular gentlemen are illiberal enough to censure them, yet that this House will never agree to such iniquitous measures. What was the conduct of this society when the first news of the late insurrection reached them? Did they not, in the most pointed manner, discountenance any such proceeding? Did they not refuse to correspond with any society that aided, or in any manner abetted, the insurrection? They did more. They offered their personal services to go and help to crush this commotion in the bud. Mr. C. subjoined that he would venture to say, and at the same time he spoke within bounds, that nine-tenths of this society actually took up their muskets and marched into the field for the above laudable purpose, and that numbers of them still continue there, and are the friends of peace and order, and not the disorganizers that the present amendment would make them. Mr. C. appealed to the candor of the committee to say, whether the Baltimore self-created Republican Society were the description of men whom the PRESIDENT, in his Speech, meant to describe. He was sure it was not. Therefore, why involve in this indiscriminate censure men who have deserved so well of their country? men who, instead of having odium cast upon them, merit every praise which the Federal Government can bestow. For these, and some other reasons, Mr. C. declared that he should vote against the amendment, and he trusted that he should vote in the majority.

Mr. MURRAY rose to explain. He did not mean this society. It was the Philadelphia and Pittsburg societies. Mr. M. was acquainted with this society, and had the greatest respect for them. As for the members of the other societies, he was for gibbeting their principles only.

Mr. RUTHERFORD.--This alarm is owing to an overgrown moneyed system, with which the people are not entirely satisfied. But the moneyholders need not be afraid. The people will pay the public debt. Then why disturb the tranquillity of the people? The PRESIDENT, in his Speech, points only at combinations over the mountains. As to the character of the PRESIDENT himself, to praise him was like holding up a rush candle to let us see the sun. I have known that man, said Mr. R., for these forty years. I have had the honor of serving under him in the last war, and of frequently executing his wise and noble orders. The member declared that this amendment could answer no purpose but that of disturbing the public peace. He himself represented as respectable a district as any in Virginia, and he had as good opportunities as any gentleman in that House to know the temper of Americans. They were firmly attached to the present Government, and the holders of paper need not be so much afraid of Democratic societies, for the people, to preserve the tranquillity, were determined to discharge the public debt, no matter how it was contracted, and, therefore, it would be much better not to harass the public mind with amendments like that on the table.

Mr. GILES said, that he had an amendment to propose that would, he hoped, meet with the approbation of a certain description of gentlemen in that committee. His amendment was to strike out the words "self-created societies," from the amendment of Mr. FITZSIMONS, and insert "the Democratic societies of Philadelphia, New York, and Pittsburg." Gentlemen could then have some specific object at which they could say that their vote of censure was levelled; for the general expression of self-created, comprehended every society of any kind in the Union. For his own part, he was very far from wanting to censure any set of men for their political opinions.

Mr. PARKER seconded the motion for striking out, but he would not consent to the insertion proposed by Mr. GILES.

Mr. SEDGWICK thought that the amendment stands better as it is at present.

Mr. VENABLE said, that there was a paper on that table (he referred to the letter from Mr. HAMILTON to the PRESIDENT) which showed that the combinations in the western counties began their existence at the very same time with the Excise law itself. It was, therefore, entirely improper to ascribe them to Democratic societies. Should Government, said Mr. V., come forward and show their imbecility by censuring what we cannot punish? The people have a right to think and a right to speak. I am not afraid to speak my sentiments. I am not afraid of being called a disorganizer. I am, as much as any gentleman in this committee, a friend to regular government.

Mr. DEXTER believed that such societies were, in themselves, wrong, but he was still not for making laws against them. He had, however, numerous objections to their conduct. One of these was, that they erected themselves into a model for the rest of their fellow-citizens to copy. The great principle of Republicanism was, that the minority should submit to the will of the majority. But these people have elevated themselves into tyrants. Such societies are proper in a country where government is despotic, but it is improper that such societies should exist in a free country like the United States, and hence, Mr. D. was a friend to the amendment proposed by Mr. FITZSIMONS. It had been said, that it was unusual to give opinions of this kind, but, in reality, the House were in the practice of expressing their sentiments on matters of that sort, in such addresses as the one now before them. Mr. D. was decidedly against the amendment of the amendment proposed by Mr. GILES.

Mr. NICHOLAS.--Gentlemen have brought us into a discussion, and then say we must decide as they please, in deference to the PRESIDENT. This is the real ground and foundation of their arguments. But who started this question? If the gentlemen have brought themselves into a difficulty with regard to the PRESIDENT, by their participation in proposing votes of censure which they cannot carry through, they have only to blame themselves. Is it expected, said Mr. N., that I am to abandon my independence for the sake of the PRESIDENT? He never intended that we should take any such notice of his reference to these societies; but if the popularity of the PRESIDENT has, in the present case, been committed, let those who have hatched this thing, and who have brought it forward, answer for the consequences. This whole question turns upon a matter of fact, which ought to be proved, viz: Have the Democratic societies been one of the principal causes of the Western insurrection? This is a matter of fact, or otherwise, and it depends upon direct evidence. But how do gentlemen handle this question? They digress into abstract propositions, a thing never heard of before, where a matter of fact was to be proved. I say, where direct proof is wanted, we see gentlemen standing on the floor for half an hour together, without attempting to advance a single fact in support of their assertions; yet this is the only admissible kind of evidence that the societies are from their nature unfriendly to the Federal Government.

Mr. N. then adverted to a remark which had been made, that libels were daily prosecuted in this country, from which it was inferred that calumnious attacks on Government were the just objects of reprehension. Mr. N. said, that the comparison was not fair, because in a case of libel, the parties accused have a proper opportunity to defend themselves. Have these people here (the Democratic societies) any such opportunity? It has been alleged, as a crime against them, that they have never once published any approbation of any measure of Government. Mr. N. argued that this arose from the very nature of their institution, which was to watch the errors of the Legislature and Executive, and point out to the public what they considered to be mistakes. Faults were the only kind of facts which they were in quest of. Here Mr. N. drew a material distinction. If these societies had censured every proceeding of Government, there would have been the greatest reason for taking some measures. But what was the case? As to an immense number of the proceedings of the Executive and Legislature, they had taken no notice whatever.

Mr. SEDGWICK thought that the PRESIDENT would have been defective in his duty, had he omitted to mention what he religiously believed to be true, viz: that the Democratic societies had in a great measure originated the late disturbances. It was the indispensable duty of the PRESIDENT to speak as he had spoken. The present amendment (of Mr. FITZSIMONS) would have a tendency to plunge these societies into contempt, and to sink them still farther into abhorrence and detestation. He pronounced them to be illicit combinations. One gentleman (Mr. NICHOLAS) tells you, that he despises them most heartily. Another (Mr. LYMAN) says that they begin to repent. Will the American people perversely propose to shoulder and bolster up these despised and repenting societies, which are now tumbling into dust and contempt? Their conduct differed as far from a fair and honorable investigation, as Christ and Belial. They were men prowling in the dark. God is my judge, said Mr. S., that I would not wish to check a fair discussion.

One gentleman (Mr. MCDOWELL) had told the committee, that the Assumption and Funding transactions were a cause of public discontent. It has been the trick of these people to make this assertion. They have said that the Funding System is a mass of favoritism, for the purpose of erecting an oppressive aristocracy, and a paper nobility. There is not a man among them, who is able to write, and who does not know that these assertions are false. As to the assumption of the debts of individual States, it has been said that this measure was undertaken for the purpose of making up a large debt. There was no such thing. Before the adoption of the new constitution, of which Mr. S. considered the Funding and Assumption Systems to be essential preliminaries, the credit and commerce of America were declining or gone. The States were disagreeing at home, and the American name was disgraced abroad. It was not to be supposed that every one of the measures of the new Government could please every body. Among the rest, excise was objected to in both Houses of Congress; but at last the good sense of the people acquiesced. At this crisis, a foreign agent (_Genet_) landed at Charleston. On his way to this city, he was attended by the hosannas of all the disaffected. He did the utmost mischief that was in his power; and in consequence of his efforts, Democratic societies sprung up. Mr. S. here gave a particular account of some proceedings of a society in Virginia, of more than usual boldness. He quoted some of their expressions relative to a very illustrious character, the PRESIDENT, and added that perhaps the individuals who composed this society were in themselves too despicable to deserve any notice in this place. He did not know whether they were or not. [Mr. S. was here interrupted by a member from Virginia, and an explanation ensued.]

Mr. MCDOWELL rose to make an apology for some words which had escaped him the day before. He did not expect to have been so smartly handled. He had been forcibly struck at the time, and had spoken from a momentary impulse. In substance, however, he adhered to all his former allegations. He still persisted in believing that the excise laws were shapen in darkness. He apologized for some part of his heat, from having seen and suffered so much by despotic government during the last war in which this gentleman supported the character of a brave and able officer.

Mr. HILLHOUSE approved of the amendment; as proposed by Mr. FITZSIMONS. Constituents made no scruple to tell Representatives of their faults, and he saw no reason why Representatives might not tell constituents of theirs? The resolutions of Democratic societies printed in newspapers, had spirited up the people in the Western counties to resistance. They had weakly fancied that the American nation would not stand by their constitution and their PRESIDENT. But for the publication of these resolutions, there would have been no insurrection. This was a piece of information which the people of the United States had a right to know. It was the duty of that House to let them know it. The PRESIDENT had done his duty. Mr. H. did not consider the amendment of Mr. FITZSIMONS as an indiscriminate censure levelled at these societies; he thought it only a suitable answer to a part of the PRESIDENT's Speech.

Mr. PARKER concluded this long debate by the following remarks. He did not think that Democratic societies were so far to blame as had been imagined. He suspected that the PRESIDENT himself, for whose character and services he felt as much respect and gratitude as any man in America, had been misinformed on this point. It would be absurd to say, that the Western disturbances originated from the publications of Democratic societies, if it could be proved to the satisfaction of the committee, that such disturbances had begun long before any of the associations alluded to had a being. To prove this position, Mr. P. desired that the Clerk might read a passage from the letter on that affair, written by Mr. Hamilton, and which has already been published in all the newspapers. The Clerk accordingly read a part of the letter, from which Mr. P. inferred that his inference was incontestable, and he then stated the absurdity of making the Democratic publications the origin of a discontent, which existed before them. He was satisfied that the PRESIDENT did not wish this thing echoed; and that he would entirely disapprove of the proposed persecution. Mr. P. said, that he had the honor of being an honorary member of a Democratic society. Personally he knew nothing of the gentlemen, but he understood that they were respectable characters; and that they were friends to good order and the Federal Government, there could be no question, for when the Embargo was laid last spring, and some vessels had been attempting to get off, these vigilant citizens armed and embodied themselves, and prevented the execution of the design. With all his respect for the PRESIDENT, he was not to give up his opinions for the sake of any man. He was convinced that all this violent declamation and irritation in the House would do a great deal of mischief, and would have an effect exactly the reverse of what was designed by the amendment as it first stood. A gentleman (Mr. DEXTER) had spoken of town meetings, as the proper vehicles for the communication of political ideas, and had drawn a comparison between these and Democratic societies. Mr. P. requested that it might be noticed, that in the Southern States there neither were nor could be such things as town meetings, because the population was too thin and too widely scattered. They were therefore to make the best of it which they could, and meet and deliberate, no matter where, whenever they found a convenient opportunity. Mr. P. expressed, in strong terms the aversion that his constituents would feel to this species of censorship. He concluded with these words: "They love your Government much, but they love their independence more."

The question was then called for on striking out the word "self-created" from the new amendment of Mr. FITZSIMONS. For the amendment of Mr. GILES, ayes 47, noes 45. This amendment was therefore adopted.

Mr. GILES then proposed an amendment, after the words "combination of men," by adding, "in the four Western counties of Pennsylvania."

Mr. HARTLEY said, that the gentleman should have added, "and a county in Virginia." This amendment of Mr. GILES was rejected.

The committee now rose, and reported the amendments to the House.

WEDNESDAY, November 26.

[The committee having risen, and the question having been
taken in the House, the yeas and nays on the motion to
reinstate the obnoxious words, were:]

YEAS.--Fisher Ames, James Armstrong, John Beatty, Elias
Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Lambert
Cadwalader, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Joshua Coit, William
J. Dawson, Jonathan Dayton, Samuel Baxter, Thomas
Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Nicholas
Gilman, Henry Glenn, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Samuel
Griffin, William Barry Grove, Thomas Hartley, James
Hillhouse, William Hindman, Samuel Holten, John Wilkes
Kittera, Henry Latimer, Amasa Learned, Richard Bland Lee,
Francis Malbone, William Vans Murray, Thomas Scott,
Theodore Sedgwick, John S. Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith,
William Smith, Zephaniah Swift, George Thatcher, Uriah
Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van Allen, Peter Van
Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth, Artemas Ward, John Watts, and
Paine Wingate.

NAYS.--Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, Thomas Blount,
Thomas P. Carnes, Gabriel Christie, Thomas Claiborne, Isaac
Coles, Henry Dearborn, George Dent, Gabriel Duvall, William
Findlay, William B. Giles, James Gillespie, Christopher
Greenup, Andrew Gregg, George Hancock, Carter B. Harrison,
John Heath, Daniel Heister, John Hunter, Matthew Locke,
William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Joseph
McDowell, Alexander Mebane, William Montgomery, Andrew
Moore, Peter Muhlenberg, Joseph Neville, Anthony New, John
Nicholas, Nathaniel Niles, Alexander D. Orr, Josiah Parker,
Andrew Pickens, Francis Preston, Robert Rutherford, John
Smilie, Israel Smith, Thomas Tredwell, Philip Van
Cortlandt, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, and Joseph
Winston.

And then the main question being put, that the House do agree to the said clause, amended to read as followeth:

"In tracing the origin and progress of the insurrection, we
can entertain no doubt that certain self-created societies
and combinations of men in the four Western counties of
Pennsylvania, and parts adjacent, careless of consequences,
and disregarding the truth, by disseminating suspicions,
jealousies, and accusations of the Government, have had all
the agency you ascribe to them, in fomenting this daring
outrage against social order and the authority of the
laws:"

It passed in the negative, nineteen members only rising in the affirmative.

FRIDAY, November 28.

_Answer to the Address._

The Answer, as amended, was then read throughout at the Clerk's table as follows:

SIR: The House of Representatives, calling to mind the
blessings enjoyed by the people of the United States, and
especially the happiness of living under constitutions and
laws which rest on their authority alone, could not learn,
with other emotions than those you have expressed, that any
part of our fellow-citizens should have shown themselves
capable of an insurrection. And we learn, with the greatest
concern, that any misrepresentations whatever, of the
Government and its proceedings, either by individuals or
combinations of men, should have been made, and so far
credited as to foment the flagrant outrage which has been
committed on the laws. We feel, with you, the deepest
regret at so painful an occurrence in the annals of our
country. As men regardful of the tender interests of
humanity, we look with grief at scenes which might have
stained our land with civil blood. As lovers of public
order, we lament that it has suffered so flagrant a
violation: as zealous friends of Republican Government, we
deplore every occasion which, in the hands of its enemies,
may be turned into a calumny against it.

This aspect of the crisis, however, is happily not the only
one which it presents. There is another, which yields all
the consolations which you have drawn from it. It has
demonstrated to the candid world, as well as to the
American people themselves, that the great body of them,
every where, are equally attached to the luminous and vital
principle of our constitution, which enjoins that the will
of the majority shall prevail; that they understand the
indissoluble union between true liberty and regular
government; that they feel their duties no less than they
are watchful over their rights; that they will be as ready,
at all times, to crush licentiousness, as they have been to
defeat usurpation: in a word, that they are capable of
carrying into execution that noble plan of self-government
which they have chosen as the guarantee of their own
happiness, and the asylum for that of all, from every
clime, who may wish to unite their destiny with ours.

These are the just inferences flowing from the promptitude
with which the summons to the standard of the laws has been
obeyed; and from the sentiments which have been witnessed,
in every description of citizens, in every quarter of the
Union. The spectacle, therefore, when viewed in its true
light, may well be affirmed to display, in equal lustre,
the virtues of the American character, and the value of
Republican Government. All must particularly acknowledge
and applaud the patriotism of that portion of citizens who
have freely sacrificed every thing less dear than the love
of their country, to the meritorious task of defending its
happiness.

In the part which you have yourself borne through this
delicate and distressing period, we trace the additional
proofs it has afforded of your solicitude for the public
good. Your laudable and successful endeavors to render
lenity in executing the laws conducive to their real
energy, and to convert tumult into order, without the
effusion of blood, form a particular title to the
confidence and praise of your constituents. In all that may
be found necessary, on our part, to complete this
benevolent purpose, and to secure the ministers and friends
of the laws against the remains of danger, our due
co-operation will be afforded.

The other subjects which you have recommended, or
communicated, and of which several are peculiarly
interesting, will all receive the attention which they
demand. We are deeply impressed with the importance of an
effectual organization of the militia. We rejoice at the
intelligence of the advance and success of the army under
the command of General Wayne, whether we regard it as a
proof of the perseverance, prowess, and superiority of our
troops, or as a happy presage to our military operations
against the hostile Indians, and as a probable prelude to
the establishment of a lasting peace, upon terms of candor,
equity, and good neighborhood. We receive it with the
greater pleasure, as it increases the probability of sooner
restoring a part of the public resources to the desirable
object of reducing the public debt.

We shall, on this, as on all occasions, be disposed to
adopt any measure which may advance the safety and
prosperity of our country. In nothing can we more cordially
unite with you, than in imploring the Supreme Ruler of
Nations to multiply His blessings on these United States;
to guard our free and happy constitution against every
machination and danger; and to make it the best source of
public happiness, by verifying its character of being the
best safeguard of human rights.

_Resolved_, That Mr. SPEAKER, attended by the House, do present the said address; and that Mr. MADISON, Mr. SEDGWICK, and Mr. SCOTT, be a committee to wait on the PRESIDENT, to know when and where it will be convenient for him to receive the same.

Mr. GILES, from the committee appointed, presented a bill to regulate the pay of the non-commissioned officers, musicians, and privates, of the militia of the United States, when called into actual service, and for other purposes; which was read twice and committed.

The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Treasurer of the United States, accompanying his account of receipts and expenditures of public moneys, from the 1st of April to the 30th of June, 1794; also, his account of payments and receipts for the War Department, from the 1st of July to the 30th of September, 1794, inclusive; which were read, and ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. MADISON, from the committee appointed to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, to know when and where it will be convenient for him to receive the Address of this House, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress, reported that the committee had waited on the PRESIDENT, who signified to them that it would be convenient to him to receive the said Address at twelve o'clock to-morrow, at his own house.

SATURDAY, November 29.

The SPEAKER, attended by the House, then withdrew to the house of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and there presented to him the Address of this House, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress; to which the PRESIDENT made the following reply:

_Gentlemen:_ I anticipated, with confidence, the
concurrence of the House of Representatives in the regret
produced by the insurrection. Every effort ought to be used
to discountenance what has contributed to foment it; and
thus discourage a repetition of like attempts. For,
notwithstanding the consolations which may be drawn from
the issue of this event, it is far better that the artful
approaches to such a situation of things should be checked
by the vigilant and duly admonished patriotism of our
fellow-citizens, than that the evil should increase until
it becomes necessary to crush it by the strength of their
arms.

I am happy that the part which I have myself borne on this
occasion receives the approbation of your House. For the
discharge of a constitutional duty, it is a sufficient
reward to me to be assured that you will unite in
consummating what remains to be done.

I feel, also, great satisfaction in learning that the other
subjects which I have communicated or recommended, will
meet with due attention; that you are deeply impressed with
the importance of an effectual organization of the militia;
and that the advance and success of the army under the
command of General Wayne is regarded by you, no less than
myself, as a proof of the perseverance, prowess, and
superiority of our troops. G. WASHINGTON.

TUESDAY, December 2.

The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, stating his intention of resigning his office on the last day of January next, and which he now communicates, in order that an opportunity may be given, previous to that event, to institute any further proceedings which may be contemplated, if any there be, in consequence of the inquiry during the last session, into the state of the Treasury Department; which was read, and ordered to lie on the table.[55]

THURSDAY, December 4.

_Thanks to General Wayne._

Mr. W. SMITH wished to make his promised motion, which he prefaced by observing that he had varied it at the request of several gentlemen. In the original motion, he had particularly noticed the diligence of the General in disciplining his army to the nature of the service in which they were engaged, and his fortitude and perseverance in encountering the difficulties which opposed his march through a wilderness.

Though he and many others were ready to acknowledge in the fullest manner the merits of the General in those important particulars, yet as they were not matters of general notoriety, and as unanimity on an occasion like the present was extremely desirable, he had now confined the motion to the brilliant action of the 20th August.

Mr. SMITH concluded with saying, that as he had no doubt the services of the army had made the same impression on the House as they had on him, he trusted the motion he was about to make would be honored with a unanimous vote. He then moved the three resolutions, as follow:

_Resolved_, That the thanks of this House he given to Major
General Wayne for the good conduct and bravery displayed by
him in the action of the 20th August last with the Indians.

_Resolved, unanimously_, That the thanks of this House be
given to the brave officers and soldiers of the legion
under the orders of Major General Wayne, for their
patience, fortitude, and bravery.

_Resolved_, That the thanks of this House be given to Major
General Scott, and to the gallant mounted volunteers from
the State of Kentucky, who have served their country in the
field during the late campaign, under the orders of Major
General Wayne, for their zeal, bravery, and good conduct.

Mr. GILES foresaw many bad consequences that might ensue from the practice of giving opinions of men. One part of the House might be for a vote of thanks, and the other against it. He should vote for the proposition, but wished that some mode might be adopted for expressing the general opinion of the House against the practice.

Mr. KITTERA was for restoring the clause respecting the vigilance of General Wayne in attending to the discipline of his troops.

Mr. HILLHOUSE hoped that the resolutions would not be adopted. He should go farther than the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. GILES) and vote against them. The House in their answer to the PRESIDENT, had expressed their approbation, and that was enough. It was not the business of that House, but of the Executive, to express such things. Mr. H. had voted most cordially for that part of the Address respecting the Western army. The Answer to the Speech of the PRESIDENT would always afford a good opportunity of conveying these kind of matters. It would immediately become necessary to give thanks in every case; and not to give them will be regarded as an implied censure. He trusted that the gentleman would withdraw his motion, and that the House in this way would get rid of it. He had, and he repeated it again, a high sense of the merit of the officers and soldiers of the army under General Wayne, but he had said so already in the Address to the PRESIDENT. It had been urged, as a precedent for this measure, that it was usual to thank the Speaker. This was a mere ceremony. He wished that it had never come into practice, but since it had been so, he should always agree to the vote of thanks.

Mr. MURRAY thought that we might trust that the House would always have too much prudence to abuse their thanks, by giving them improperly. By way of precedent Mr. M. read a vote of the State of Virginia, thanking Governor Lee for his conduct in the Western insurrection.

Mr. NICHOLAS approved highly of the conduct of the troops, but it was only an act of duty. If we send soldiers against the Indians, it is supposed that they will stand to their posts, otherwise the Government cannot be supported even for a month.

Mr. HILLHOUSE saw no business which the House had with the proceedings in the State of Virginia. It had been hinted that the army under General Wayne might feel disagreeably, if the resolution should be rejected. With that Mr. H. had no business. He acted on principles without regarding the feelings of individuals.