Chapter LXI: Introduction (60)

Mr. VENABLE differed entirely from the gentleman who spoke last. He understood that pardons extended only to the offences against Government. It would, for that reason, be no hardship against the people who had received pardons to prosecute them for civil damages; and, by the statement of the member himself, actions would lie where no public prosecutions had been made.

Mr. SWIFT was of opinion that the member from Pennsylvania (Mr. HARTLEY) was most certainly mistaken in point of law, when he imagined that the pardon granted by the commissioners extended, or might be construed to a remission of civil offences. He did not believe it to be in the power of Government to pardon these rioters and trespassers to that length. He did not expect that the gentleman from Pennsylvania would have stood up in the House to recommend an unqualified pardon. When a million of dollars had been expended, were the House to give them fifteen or twenty thousand dollars more? He did not come there prepared to hear of a premium for insurrection. He rejected all idea of so much tenderness for rioters and rebels.

Mr. BOUDINOT rejected all idea of the rioters being exempted from civil suits. There was but one exception, where they were executed for their crimes. He had no other view of the matter, but as a question of policy--whether it was expedient, or the contrary, to prosecute these people. He believed that, before the new constitution, the law stood as the member from Pennsylvania represented it. But all this was much from the purpose. By far the greater number of the rioters have accepted the amnesty. Nobody imagines them exempted from prosecution. To prevent any misconception of this nature, the commissioners, in the terms of pardon which they held out, expressly warned the people that they were to be liable to civil actions for the damages committed. It was needless, then, to embarrass the question with more difficulties than naturally belonged to it. He was satisfied that this was a mere question of policy, whether it was better to pay off these people at once, or let them first try the effects of civil actions.

Mr. DAYTON rose and asked, "Who shall decide, when doctors disagree?" Who shall declare what is the law, when the learned gentlemen of the bar are so directly opposed to each other? The House (Mr. D. observed) had, by some means, imperceptibly, and, he thought, unnecessarily, been drawn into the discussion of a common law question. Law had been aptly compared to a bottomless pit, and the sooner, therefore, that they extricated themselves from it, the better. Very fortunately, (he said,) there existed no necessity for determining, in the present cases, upon any intricate point of law, as the proposals of amnesty, in their very terms, as well as in their nature, left each individual trespasser liable to suits at law on the part of the friends of good order, for the damages sustained by the one and done by the other. Mr. D. was for allowing those prosecutions to go forward, and was well informed, not only that there was far more than sufficient of the property of the insurgents to make compensation, but that it was probable they would agree together, and make up the whole among themselves, rather than be vexed by lawsuits. He could not agree with those gentlemen who expressed a wish to vote for the whole amount of damages, immediately to be paid from the Treasury. He did not believe with them, that such a measure would promote the dignity, or manifest the justice, of the Government. This would be to enter into an improper compromise with guilt. It would be to make peace with sedition, in a way that might tend to encourage rather than, to discourage it in future. We were obligated, upon principle and precedent, to ensure indemnity to those officers of Government, who, in consequence of a prompt and steady discharge of their duty, had suffered in their property from the resentment of the insurgents. But he wished not to do more, until the result of actions at law could be ascertained. Although the Government may offer a pardon for offences against the public, yet nothing was more clear than that the general amnesty did not, and could not, exempt the seditious offenders from answering to private persons for injuries done to them in their property.

Mr. HARTLEY rose to explain. The gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. SWIFT) had mistaken his meaning. He was going on, when

Mr. DAYTON rose, and declared that he had never put any such construction on the words of the gentleman, who certainly must have misapprehended him.

I did not mean you, sir, (said Mr. HARTLEY,) I said the gentleman from _Connecticut_. You made a mistake of the same kind with me last session.

The amendment of Mr. BOUDINOT was, on a division, lost--only twenty-six gentlemen rising when the question was called for.

The question on the first resolution was then called for; when it was moved to take the previous question, that is to say, "Shall the main question be now put?"

Mr. FITZSIMONS rose. He thought that this discussion comprehended a principle of the most important nature. He trusted that it would not be got rid of in this way. He was not of opinion with those gentlemen who were disposed to waive the question just now, under the notion that they should have an opportunity of voting for it at another time. He believed that the true design of moving the previous question was to lay it aside altogether. This expedient should not answer the end; for, if he had only one other gentleman in the House to second him, he would stand by the matter until he obtained an explicit answer.

Mr. MCDOWELL vindicated the propriety of taking the previous question.

Mr. SEDGWICK said, that when the British carried on a most unjust war against this country, the Ministry who began it were in time turned out. Their successors had always reprobated the war, but, after the peace, they, notwithstanding, had expended several millions to support the loyalists. While the British had acted with so much liberality, did it become Americans to stick at the paltry sum of seventeen thousand dollars? The House had wrangled so long about this matter, that the very wages which they received for the time spent in this discussion would about have discharged the whole sum in dispute. When a wild, unprincipled, mad attempt had been made to destroy this noble constitution, were the Representatives of this people to make it a doubt whether those who saved it from, perhaps, destruction, were to be indemnified? Mr. S. declared that he felt more unpleasant sensations than he remembered ever to have experienced since he became a member of this House. Gentlemen might argue and argue about this drop in the bucket compared with the ocean. They might go into metaphysical deductions about whether the men who saved this constitution were, some of them, to be reduced to beggary and misery, as the price of having done so. He would bring up the question again and again, until he had the sense of the House again. Mr. S. repeated the following argument, which he, on a former day, had pressed. He asked whether persons who, from the pure, conscious dignity of the republican character, stepped forward to support the Government, did not deserve better of it than excise officers, who were bound to and paid for their services? He was even of opinion that the conduct of the private soldiers in this case was more meritorious than that of the officers. He might be mistaken, but his opinion was so. From this language it is not to be inferred that Mr. S. undervalued the exertions of the officers of the army, or of the excise. He only meant that the less interest or emolument which an individual has at stake in the success of an affair, the greater is his merit in performing it. He asked what better time there was than the present for settling the amount of these claims?

Mr. HEATH was for the previous question. He thought the resolution unseasonable at this time. However little the gentleman chose to think of seventeen thousand dollars, they might grow into a precedent for seventeen hundred thousand dollars.

Mr. BOUDINOT thought that the seventeen thousand dollars were not the whole of the damages that might be claimed. When commissioners were sent to the Westward, the demand might rise to seventy thousand. Numerous other requisitions might start up. He was for taking the previous question.

Mr. DEXTER regretted his necessity to differ from a gentleman (Mr. BOUDINOT) for whose opinions he was in the habit of entertaining the highest respect. He was against the previous question, because he disliked obliquity. Whether he was against or for the first resolution in the report of the select committee, he would give the resolution itself a fair meeting. He then inquired what better time there could be for learning the number and extent of the losses than the present? He again explained, as on Wednesday, that the House appeared to mistake the extent of the resolution, which did not imply any complete indemnification, nor even assure any relief at all. The whole amounted only to the taking of measures for obtaining information. He would not have voted for it, if he had thought that it promised complete indemnification. He thought that no future time could be so proper as the present for deciding.

Mr. SWIFT, Mr. KITTERA, and Mr. GILBERT, also spoke.

Mr. HILLHOUSE went on the same ground with Mr. DEXTER. He was one of the committee who drew up the resolutions. They never understood that the resolution implied an assurance of complete indemnity to the sufferers.

The previous question was called for by five members, to wit: "Shall the main question, to agree to the said resolution, be now put?"

And on the previous question, "Shall the said main question be now put?" it was resolved in the affirmative--yeas 52, nays 31, as follows:

YEAS.--Fisher Ames, James Armstrong, John Beatty, Elias
Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Lambert
Cadwalader, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Jonathan Dayton,
Henry Dearborn, Samuel Dexter, Gabriel Duvall, William
Findlay, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert,
Nicholas Gilman, Henry Glenn, Benjamin Goodhue, James
Gordon, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Griffin, William Barry Grove,
Thomas Hartley, Daniel Heister, James Hillhouse, William
Hindman, Samuel Holten, John Wilkes Kittera, Henry Latimer,
Amasa Learned, William Lyman, Francis Malbone, William
Montgomery, Peter Muhlenberg, Alexander D. Orr, John Page,
Josiah Parker, Andrew Pickens, Thomas Scott, Theodore
Sedgwick, William Smith, George Thatcher, Uriah Tracy,
Jonathan Trumbull, Philip Van Cortlandt, Peter Van
Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth, John Watts, Benjamin Williams,
and Richard Winn.

NAYS.--Theodorus Bailey, Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes,
Gabriel Christie, Joshua Coit, George Dent, William B.
Giles, James Gillespie, George Hancock, Carter B. Harrison,
John Heath, John Hunter, Richard Bland Lee, Matthew Locke,
James Madison, Joseph McDowell, Alexander Mebane, Andrew
Moore, Anthony New, John Nichols, Nathaniel Niles, Robert
Rutherford, John S. Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith, Israel
Smith, Zephaniah Swift, Thomas Tredwell, Abraham Venable,
Francis Walker, Paine Wingate, and Joseph Winston.

Mr. GILBERT then moved a resolution, the substance of which was understood to be to ascertain whether the losses in the Western counties were incurred in defence of Government, and how far the sufferers were capable to carry on the lawsuits themselves against the rioters.

Mr. GILES, was against the amendment, the resolution itself, and the whole mode of conducting the business. He had listened to many long speeches, and been surprised that no gentleman had made the observation which he was now going to submit to the House.

[The noise had by this time become so intense, that the SPEAKER rose and reminded the members of a rule that there must be no private conversation while a member addresses the Chair.]

Mr. G. then proceeded to declare that he disliked the form rather than the substance of the resolution. If people in the Western counties had suffered injuries, why should not they, as well as every other class of citizens, come to the bar of that House and petition? An inquest was, he imagined, intended, which would unite all the back country in one common interest against the Treasury of the United States. The mode proposed by the report of the select committee was the most exceptionable of all that could have been devised. It was said that this was only an affair of seventeen thousand dollars. What evidence have we that the demand will stop there? Sir, there is none. The mode is, besides, totally wrong. Let persons who have suffered come here in the usual manner. It is said that a gentleman has had his house burned. Let him come here and tell us so. Mr. G. entirely scouted the idea advanced by Mr. DEXTER, that we might inquire into the extent of the losses, without a design to discharge them. If you do not mean to indemnify, why inquire at all? He did not object to relieving the sufferers, but, to erect a board of inquest, under Presidential direction, was what he never would consent to. He again repeated, that he did not mean to dissent from the principle, but from this most exceptionable of all modes for putting it into practice. Let people lay memorials of their losses before the House, which would then see distinctly what it was doing, and examine the evidence on which the claim was founded. He wondered that none of all the speakers in the debate had adverted to this distinction.

Mr. HILLHOUSE differed in every particular from the gentleman who spoke last. If petitioners come from the Westward, they are referred to a select committee. They bring all the evidence which they can muster to swell their bill. The committee have no counter-evidence, as we in this House almost never hear more than one of the parties. It is much better to send persons to the spot who can examine the subject on both sides, which we cannot possibly do, and who will be responsible to this House for their conduct. The whole arguments and ideas of Mr. H. were in direct contradiction to every thing advanced by Mr. GILES. He (Mr. H.) was satisfied that, before we undertook to pay the losses of the Western people, it was better, in the first place, to know the extent of them. The resolution amounted to nothing more than the ascertaining of this loss, and Mr. H. could see many good reasons for deferring the payment of a bill until he knew the sum to which it amounted. He could also see reasons why the mode recommended in the resolution was much preferable to that of bringing people so far to the House. Commissioners going to the spot could make themselves perfectly masters of the subject; whereas, if the parties come here, the matter will be decided on _ex parte_ evidence, as it always is.

Mr. BOUDINOT considered the resolution as too loosely worded. A gentleman who had been on the expedition, and who had heard or read the report, observed to him (Mr. B.) that he himself came within the resolution, as he had suffered considerably in his business by his absence.

Mr. HILLHOUSE explained, that the resolution extended only to actual destruction. The committee never meant to compensate people for the loss which they had suffered by being banished. He was ready, if the House liked it better, to insert in the first resolution the words "property actually destroyed." This would prevent the misapprehension of the gentleman mentioned by Mr. BOUDINOT.

The House divided on the amendment of Mr. GILBERT--ayes 39, noes 33.

Mr. HILLHOUSE then moved to strike out the word "in" from the first resolution, and put into its place, "by the actual destruction of" their property.

Mr. MADISON apprehended that this amendment left the resolution as bad as it was before, if not worse. A person in the Western counties had his horse stolen by the insurgents. But this did not imply the actual destruction or annihilation of the horse. The amendment meant either too much or too little. It certainly could be no improvement on the resolution.

After some further discussion, the amendment was agreed to.

And the main question being put, that the House do agree to the said resolution, amended to read as follows:

"_Resolved_, That the President of the United States be
requested to cause an ascertainment to be made of the
losses sustained by the officers of Government, and other
citizens, by the actual destruction of their property (in
consequence of their exertions in support of the laws) by
insurgents in the Western counties of Pennsylvania;
together with a report of the particular condition of the
respective sufferers, in relation to their ability to
prosecute their several claims, and recover, at law,
satisfaction from the insurgent aggressors."

It was resolved in the affirmative.

The second resolution on the subject of indemnification was then taken up in the House.

Mr. BOUDINOT moved the following amendatory addition:

"To aid such of the sufferers as, in his (the President's)
opinion, stand in need of immediate assistance, to be
accounted for by them in such manner as may hereafter be
directed by law."

The amendment was carried, forty-four gentlemen rising.

The resolution, as amended, is as follows:

"_Resolved_, That the President be authorized to draw out
of the Treasury of the United States the sum of ----
dollars, to be applied by him to aid such of the said
sufferers as, in his opinion, stand in need of immediate
assistance, to be accounted for by them in such manner as
may hereafter be directed by law."

_Ordered_, That a bill or bills be brought in pursuant to the said resolutions; and that Mr. HILLHOUSE, Mr. FINDLAY, Mr. LYMAN, Mr. WATTS, and Mr. WILLIAM SMITH, do prepare and bring in the same.

FRIDAY, December 26.

Two other members, to wit: JEREMIAH WADSWORTH, from Connecticut; and SAMUEL SMITH, from Maryland, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

_Naturalization Bill._

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, on the bill to amend the act, entitled "An act to establish a uniform rule of naturalization."

Mr. GILES proposed to amend the intended test of a citizen, by adding, after "two witnesses giving evidence as to his moral character," these words: "attached to a Republican form of Government." He thought this test proper, to prevent those poisonous communications from Europe, of which gentlemen were so much afraid.

Mr. DEXTER preferred saying, "attached to the Constitution of the United States."

To this amendment Mr. GILES had little or no objection.

Mr. BOUDINOT did not see the use of either amendment. It was only giving unnecessary trouble. The oath which the person himself must take, was sufficient for expressing his fidelity to the Government of this country.

Mr. NICHOLAS considered both the amendment, and the clause to which it was annexed, as unnecessary; and even if in themselves proper, they were misplaced. He thought both equally superfluous. They should have been inserted in the oath of allegiance of the man himself.

Mr. DAYTON hoped that the whole clause would be rejected. He should be against it, unless the nature of the evidence was referred to a Court of Justice. He foresaw many difficulties arising to poor men in attempting to get two such witnesses. It might suit extremely well with merchants and men of large capital, who had, he supposed, been alluded to the other day, under the title of meritorious emigrants. He was not so anxious for them as for useful laboring people, who, as he thought, would be more likely to do good. This class, however, had never, it was likely, troubled their heads about forms of Government. He further objected to the amendment of the gentleman from Virginia, that the word Republican was entirely equivocal. This title was assumed by many Governments in Europe, which were upon principles entirely different from ours. Some of them, such as Poland, had been Aristocracies of the most hideous form.

Mr. DEXTER hoped that the amendment of Mr. GILES would not pass, [Mr. GILES had, as before noticed, consented to withdraw it;] not so much for the sake of the principle, as of the language in which it was expressed. The word Republican implied so much, that nobody could tell where to limit it. Why use so hackneyed a word? Many call themselves Republicans, who, by this word, mean pulling down every establishment: they were mere Anarchists.

Mr. HILLHOUSE was equally against the clause and amendment. Mr. DEXTER and Mr. GILES previously declared themselves extremely doubtful whether they should even vote for the clause, when amended in their own way.

Mr. GILES felt himself extremely surprised to hear it asserted on the floor of Congress, that the words "Republican form of Government" meant any thing or nothing. He read a passage from the constitution, whereby a Republican form of Government is guaranteed to each of the United States composing the Union. He should, therefore, have imagined that the words were well understood from one end of the Continent to the other. He did not expect such criticism. He was not sure if he should vote for the clause at all; but if he did so, he should wish the best to be made of it. He then altered his amendment to these words: "attached to the principles of the Government of the United States."

Mr. DAYTON.--With all the ambition of that gentleman (Mr. GILES) to be called a Democrat, both he and Mr. D. would more properly be called Republicans. He again vindicated his assertion as to the equivocal meaning of the word. A Venetian or Genoese might come to this country, and take the oath as proposed, and then excuse himself by saying, "it was the Republican form of my own country which I had in view." One of the best writers on the British Constitution had called that also a Republic.

Mr. MADISON was of opinion that the word was well enough understood to signify a free Representative Government, deriving its authority from the people, and calculated for their benefit; and thus far the amendment of his colleague was sufficiently proper. Mr. M. doubted whether he himself should, however, vote for the clause, thus amended. It would, perhaps, be very difficult for many citizens to find two reputable witnesses, who could swear to the purity of their principles for three years back. Many useful and virtuous members of the community may be thrown into the greatest difficulties, by such a procedure. In three years time, a person may have shifted his residence from one end of the Continent to the other. How then was he to find evidence of his behavior during such a length of time? But he objected to both amendments on a different ground. It was hard to make a man swear that he preferred the Constitution of the United States, or to give any general opinion, because he may, in his own private judgment, think Monarchy or Aristocracy better, and yet be honestly determined to support this Government as he finds it.

Mr. HILLHOUSE then proposed as an amendment, to insert, that "evidence should be produced to the satisfaction of the Court."

Mr. DEXTER mentioned the abuses that have happened in the present form of admitting citizens. He did not comprehend the argument of Mr. DAYTON, that it would be more easy for a rich than for a poor man to get evidences to swear to his having resided in the country. If he had not, the fact was of a notorious nature. It would likewise be as easy for a poor man, as for a rich one, to get an attestation of his character. The point of residence was, in itself, but little. A man may have resided here for a long time, and defrauded the citizens, which would be no recommendation.

Several other gentlemen spoke. The resolution finally passed.

The second resolution produced a long conversation, in the course of which Mr. MURRAY declared that he was quite indifferent if not fifty emigrants came into this Continent in a year's time. It would be unjust to hinder them, but impolitic to encourage them. He was afraid that, coming from a quarter of the world so full of disorder and corruption, they might contaminate the purity and simplicity of the American character.

The committee now rose, and had leave to sit again.

MONDAY, December 29.

_Naturalization Bill._

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, on the bill to amend the act entitled, "An act to establish a uniform rule of naturalization."

The motion before the committee, made by Mr. VENABLE, when they broke off the last discussion, had been to strike the word "moral" out of this amendment: "good moral character." These three words, altogether, were an addition of what was to be attested by the witnesses for a candidate to admission as a citizen.

Mr. DEXTER opened the debate on the amendment of Mr. VENABLE to the amendment by saying, that he wished to hear the reasons for it.

Mr. NICHOLAS said, that he did not make the motion, but his colleague, who had made it, thought that the insertion of the word "moral" gave too strict an air to the sentence. This word might be hereafter implied to mean something relative to religious opinions.

Mr. SEDGWICK remarked, that if no better reason than that advanced by Mr. NICHOLAS could be given for striking out the word "moral," he could not agree to it. Moral is opposed to immoral, but has no particular reference whatever to religion, or whether a man believes any thing or nothing. It has no reference to religious opinions. We can every where tell, by the common voice of the world, whether a man is moral or not in his life, without difficulty. In some States of the Union, adultery is not punishable by law, yet it is every where said to be an immoral action. It is too nice to make a distinction between a good character and a good moral character. The word good itself is very equivocal in its meaning. It signifies any thing, every thing, or nothing. A good companion is one thing; a good man, as applied to wealth, conveys a different sense; and so on.

Mr. B. BOURNE considered the amendment itself and the motion of Mr. VENABLE to strike out the word "moral," as equally useless.

Mr. MURRAY hoped that the word would not be struck out. This would be the greatest slander ever cast upon the American character. It would excite the surprise of foreign nations.

Mr. VENABLE had thought the wording of the phrase too strict; but rather than have any further dispute, he withdrew his motion for striking out the word "moral."

The clause was then read as amended.

Mr. GILBERT thought that the term of residence, before admitting aliens, ought to be very much longer than mentioned in the bill. The Chairman informed him that the term in the bill was left blank.

Mr. SEDGWICK agreed to the idea of Mr. GILBERT. He wished that a method could be found of permitting aliens to possess and transmit property, without, at the same time, giving them a right to vote. He did not know if the constitution authorized such a thing.

After some further conversation, the clause passed. The third resolution in the report was then read; which was, that if an American citizen chose to expatriate himself, he should not be allowed to enter into the list of citizens again without a special act of Congress, and of the State from which he had gone.

Mr. MADISON did not think that Congress, by the constitution, had any authority to readmit American citizens at all. It was only granted to them to admit aliens.

Mr. SEDGWICK was very willing, for his part, that citizens who had once expatriated themselves should never be readmitted again.

The committee, on two successive motions to that effect, from Mr. Madison and Mr. GILES, rose. The Chairman reported progress, and asked leave to sit again, which was granted.

WEDNESDAY, December 31.

LEMUEL BENTON, from South Carolina, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

THURSDAY, January 1, 1795.

_Naturalization Bill._

The House proceeded to consider the amendments reported yesterday from the Committee of the whole House, to the bill to amend the act entitled, "An act to establish a uniform rule of naturalization."

The House went through the report of the committee, and agreed to the amendments.

Mr. GILES then rose to make his promised motion as to the exclusion of any foreign emigrant from citizenship who had borne a title of nobility in Europe till he had formally renounced it. He proceeded to observe that, agreeably to the spirit of the constitution, we ought to have the strongest possible evidence that people of this description have renounced all pretence to a right of this nature, before we admit them into the bosom of society. Moderation had been recommended. He requested gentlemen to observe that he conducted his motion on the strictest principles of moderation. He had, in a former part of this bill, voted for some clauses which were intended to guard the Government against any disturbance from the people called Jacobins, when their principles should run to a dangerous and seditious extreme. The same spirit of candor and moderation which had induced him to vote for a precaution against the attempts of the one party, now led him to propose a precaution against the prejudices of the aristocrats, which were, upon the whole, more hostile to the spirit of the American constitution than those of their antagonists. He also requested gentlemen to observe that his present motion went not to the invasion of any positive right. It left the individual exactly where it found him, unless he aspired to be an American citizen. Otherwise, he might retain his titles undisturbed as long as he pleased. But if he wanted any promotion of a civil nature in this country, he must rise to it by conforming exactly to the rules laid down by the constitution itself. That code had declared no titled character admissible to any civil rank. It was not to be supposed that people born and nurtured in the lap of aristocracy would heartily renounce their titles, and become all at once sincere Republicans. It was, therefore, highly improper that such people should be admitted. If we are allowed to anticipate probabilities, it seems highly probable that we shall soon have a great number of this kind of persons here. A revolution is now going onward, to which there is nothing similar in history. A large portion of Europe has already declared against titles, and where the innovations are to stop, no man can presume to guess. There is at present no law in the United States by which a foreigner can be hindered from voting at elections, or even from coming into this House; and if a great number of these fugitive nobility come over, they may soon acquire considerable influence. The tone of thinking may insensibly change in the course of a few years, and no person can say how far such a matter may spread. After these, and other prefatory remarks, Mr. G. read a resolution, which was in effect as follows:

"And in case any alien applying for admission to
citizenship of the United States, shall have borne any
title or order of nobility in any Kingdom or State from
whence he may come, he must renounce all pretensions to his
title before the court in which such application shall be
made; and this renunciation must be registered in the said
court."

Mr. G. observed, that previous to the late revolution, the French nobility were, by the lowest calculation, rated at twenty thousand; and as we may conclude on France being successful, a great proportion of these people may be finally expected here.

Mr. DEXTER declared that he was not very anxious against the resolution. He, however, opposed it. He imagined that, by the same mode of reasoning, we might hinder his Holiness the Pope from coming into this country. He entered at some length into the ridicule of certain tenets in the Roman Catholic religion, and said that priestcraft had done more mischief than aristocracy.

Mr. MADISON said that the question was not perhaps so important as some gentlemen supposed; nor of so little consequence as others seem to think it. It is very probable that the spirit of Republicanism will pervade a great part of Europe. It is hard to guess what numbers of titled characters may, by such an event, be thrown out of that part of the world. What can be more reasonable than that when crowds of them come here, they should be forced to renounce every thing contrary to the spirit of the constitution. He did not approve the ridicule attempted to be thrown out on the Roman Catholics. In their religion there was nothing inconsistent with the purest republicanism. In Switzerland, about one-half of the Cantons were of the Roman Catholic persuasion. Some of the most democratical Cantons were so; Cantons where every man gave his vote for a representative. Americans had no right to ridicule Catholics. They had, many of them, proved good citizens during the Revolution. As to hereditary titles, they were proscribed by the constitution. He would not wish to have a citizen, who refused such an oath.

Mr. PAGE was for the motion of his colleague. It did not become that House to be afraid of introducing democratical principles. Titles only gave a particular class of men a right to be insolent, and another class a pretence to be mean and cringing. The principle will come in by degrees, and produce mischievous effects here as well as elsewhere. If such men do come here, nothing can be more grateful to a Republican than to see them renounce their titles. This does not amount to any demand of making them renounce their principles. If they do not aspire to be citizens, they may assume as many titles as they think fit. Equality is the basis of good order and society, whereas titles turn every thing wrong. Mr. P. said that a scavenger was as necessary to the health of a city as any one of its magistrates. It was proper, therefore, not to lose sight of equality, and to prevent, as far as possible, any opportunities of being insolent. He did not want to see a duke come here and contest an election for Congress with a citizen.

Mr. SEDGWICK was really at a loss to see what end this motion could answer. He agreed with the arguments of Mr. GILES. But the point in view was explicitly provided for already. By taking an oath of citizenship, the individual not only renounces but solemnly abjures nobility. The title is destroyed when the allegiance is broken by his oath being taken to this Government. This abjuration has destroyed all connection with the old Government. Why then provide for it a second time?

Mr. GILES said, that by admitting a thing to have been once done, it was admitted that it might be done again. If it had been right to do it once, there could be no harm in repeating it. The member then quoted Mr. DEXTER, who rose and declared that the gentleman had misunderstood him. He spoke for some time, and when he sat down--

Mr. GILES declared himself incapable of comprehending whether Mr. DEXTER was for his motion or against it. He therefore proceeded to reply to Mr. SEDGWICK, whose chief argument had been that the thing was provided for already. He did not suppose that this gentleman would allege the matter to be explicitly provided for. It only could be so by implication; which was a very bad way of making a law, because it gave room for endless disputes. If the thing is in itself right, why refuse to vote directly for it? Why leave it only to be implied? He wished to let foreigners know expressly the ground upon which they stood. Why not tell them at once, and in plain English, you must renounce your titles before you can have the privileges of an American citizen? Mr. G. pressed home this idea more than once. He meant no act of inhospitality to these emigrants. He would deprive them of no right, nor do any thing unkind to them. But he was entitled, by the spirit of the constitution, to withhold this right from them till they renounced all hereditary titles. This was no incivility. He concluded by declaring that he would, if supported, call for the yeas and nays on this question. A number of members rose to support this proposal.

Mr. NICHOLAS had no objection to the motion, but that it did not go far enough. The emigrants ought to be obliged to swear not only that they abjured all titles hitherto received, but that they would never accept of any in future. He believed that this would hurt their feelings, and, sympathizing with them, he would not urge a proposal that might add to their distress, but should vote for the motion as it stood.

Mr. SCOTT was sorry that so much time had been spent on the motion. We are not by the constitution authorized to make titles; and he apprehended that if it was unlawful to manufacture a commodity at home, it was unlawful to import it from abroad. On this account he was for the resolution. If once we allow the thing to be manufactured at all, he had no doubt but titles would be as prevalent here as in Britain. He should think it very odd to see a man sitting opposite to him in that House, with a star and garter on his breast. The emigrant was as welcome to wear them as to wear his hat. Only let him wear them out of doors.

Mr. TRACY thought that more time had been spent upon the subject than it was worth. He mentioned the proceedings of the French Convention, who, some time before they cut off the head of the Duke of Orleans, debated four days upon what name they should give him, and at last called him _Egalité_. He feared that calling for the yeas and nays thus early would look like party, as if intended to cast an odium on gentlemen who should vote against the motion.

Mr. DEXTER would vote for the resolution, if the gentleman would agree to an amendment; which was, that he renounced all possession of slaves.

Mr. THATCHER moved as a second amendment, "and that he never will possess them."

The words of Mr. DEXTER's amendment were nearly these: "And also, in case any such alien shall hold any person in slavery, he shall renounce it, and declare that he holds all men free and equal."

Mr. GILES said, that he should begin to think his motion of very peculiar importance, if such extraordinary resources were adopted to disappoint it. He was sorry to see slavery made a jest of in that House. He understood this to be intended as a hint against members from the Southern States. It had no proper connection with the subject before the House. He had therefore no scruple in voting against it. It was calculated to injure the property of gentlemen. As to slavery, he lamented and detested it; but, from the existing state of the country, it was impossible at present to help it. He himself owned slaves. He regretted that he did so, and if any member could point out a way in which he could be properly freed from that situation, he should rejoice in it. The thing was reducing as fast as could prudently be done. He believed that slavery was infinitely more deprecated in countries where it actually existed, and consequently where its evils were known, than in other countries where it was only an object of conversation. Gentlemen had objected to calling for the yeas and nays. Have not the public a right to know the sentiments of the House on every question? Was it any unusual thing to call for the yeas and nays? Or was there any use for it but that the sentiments of every member might be known?

Mr. MADISON mentioned regulations adopted in Virginia for gradually reducing the number of slaves. None were allowed to be imported into the State. The operation of reducing the number of slaves was going on as quickly as possible. The mention of such a thing in the House had in the mean time a very bad effect on that species of property, otherwise he did not know but what he should have voted for the amendment of Mr. DEXTER. It had a dangerous tendency on the minds of these unfortunate people.

Mr. NICHOLAS said, that Mr. DEXTER had more than on one occasion hinted his opinion that possessors of slaves were unfit to hold any Legislative trust in a Republican Government. He was solicitous that before Mr. D. spoke on a subject, he would make himself in some degree acquainted with it. He ought to acquire some information as to the state of the country, otherwise his opinion would fall into contempt with those who knew it. Mr. N. said, that gentlemen who possessed a thousand slaves in Virginia had no more influence on their neighbor who had not one than that neighbor had on them.

Mr. DEXTER complained of the attempt to take the yeas and nays, as a design to hold up certain people to public odium. He would withdraw his amendment if the gentleman would withdraw his motion.

Mr. SEDGWICK rose in some warmth. He said that there was no design in calling for the yeas and nays but to fix a stigma upon gentlemen in that House as friends to a nobility, when they were no such thing, and to raise a popular odium against them. To propose an abolition of slavery in this country would be the height of madness. Here the slaves are, and here they must remain.

A question of adjournment was now carried by 43 against 29. So the motion of Mr. GILES stands over till to-morrow.

FRIDAY, January 2.

_Naturalization Bill._

The House resumed the consideration of the amendments reported on Wednesday last from the Committee of the whole House to the bill to amend the act entitled "An act to establish a uniform rule of naturalization." Whereupon,

The amendment moved yesterday to the said bill being under consideration, in the words following, to wit:

"And in case any such alien applying for admission to
become a citizen of the United States, shall have borne any
hereditary title, or been of any of the orders of nobility
in the kingdom or state from which he came, in addition to
the requisites of this, and the before recited act, he
shall make an express renunciation of his title, or order
of nobility, in the Court to which his application shall be
made, before he shall be entitled to such admission; which
renunciation shall be recorded in the said Court."

A motion was made and seconded to amend the said amendment, by adding to the end thereof the words following, to wit:

"And, also, in case such alien shall, at the time of his
application, hold any person in slavery, he shall in the
same manner renounce all right and claim to hold such
person in slavery."

On the question that the House do agree to the said amendment to the amendment,

Mr. BOURNE said he was against both amendments. He saw no use either for the one or the other. He recapitulated the numerous checks which the constitution had framed against nobility getting into it. He, therefore, with all these checks, could see no danger from it. So much for the expediency of the proposal. He next considered it in a different point of view. A foreigner comes, perhaps with a title, which he has derived from a long train of ancestors, and, with a very pardonable infirmity, he is fond, he is perhaps proud, of his badge of nobility. Is it polite, is it generous, to force him to renounce it? If it is an hereditary title, he can renounce only for himself. His children shall inherit the right. Mr. B. wished both amendments withdrawn.

Mr. RUTHERFORD said, the people of America had an exceeding aversion to the bubble of nobility. He had so much confidence in the wisdom, good sense, and public spirit, of the gentlemen in this House, that he was sure the amendment would be carried by a very great majority. He was equally certain that the amendment of the other gentleman (Mr. DEXTER) would be rejected. It went to wound the feelings and alienate the affections of six or eight States in the Union. He was against the yeas and nays. He wished for a silent vote.

Mr. MCDOWELL.--When the gentleman from Massachusetts first brought forward the motion on the table, Mr. McD. could not think he was sincere, from the idea which he had formed of the candor and good sense of that gentleman. But, much to his surprise, Mr. D. persisted in supporting the propriety of his motion, which is not only an indirect attack on the State Governments, but even on the constitution of the United States, and on the members of this House who represent the Southern States. This amendment not only tends to irritate the minds of members, but of thousands of the good citizens in the Southern States, as it affects the property which they have acquired by their industry. Thus it cools their affections towards the Government, as they will find that one part of the Government is about to operate on their property in an indirect way. The gentleman dare not come directly forward, and tell the House, that men who possess slaves are unfit for holding an office under a Republican Government. Mr. McD. recalled to the mind of the House the conduct of the people that compose the Southern States, during the late war, and their struggle for American Independence. He then bade the House review the behavior of their Representatives, under the present Government, and say whether they do not partake more of the Republican spirit than the members from the Eastern States. The latter, also, no doubt had members who did honor to the States which they represented, and to the United States. He thought the amendment of Mr. DEXTER partook more of monarchical or despotic principles than any thing which he had seen for some time. What right had the House to say to a particular class of people, you shall not have that kind of property which other people have? This was the language of the motion, and he considered it as highly unjust. Mr. McD. wished the gentleman to consider what might be the consequence of his motion, at this time, when the West Indies are transformed into an immense scene of slaughter. When thousands of people had been massacred, and thousands had fled for refuge to this country, when the proprietors of slaves in this country could only keep them in peace with the utmost difficulty, was this a time for such inflammatory motions? He was amazed that a gentleman of whom he had so high an opinion, could, for a moment, embrace an idea which was, in all points of view, so extremely improper and dangerous.

Mr. DEXTER chiefly excused his motion because the other gentlemen had been for taking the yeas and nays. The tenor of his argument seemed to be this: You want to hold us up to the public as aristocrats. I, as a retaliation, will hold you up to the same public as dealers in slaves. Mr. D., however, did not wish to irritate. He, for that reason, withdrew his motion, under the hope that the yeas and nays would not be taken.

Mr. GILES said, that no person could be more anxious than himself to conciliate. But he could not submit to purchase conciliation by sacrificing his opinion, or betraying his duty. He should, on that account, stand by his amendment. It had been said that he called for the yeas and nays for the purpose of holding up to popular detestation a certain party in that House. Such an idea had never entered into his mind. He then commenced a vindication of the propriety of his amendment against the observations of Mr. BOURNE, who had, among other things, alleged that it had no proper relation to the spirit of the Naturalization Bill. After defending it, on this quarter, Mr. G. proceeded to answer something that had been alleged yesterday against his amendment. This was that it had been calculated to hold up an idea to the world, that there was a party in that House in favor of Aristocracy. If there is no such party, a general vote for the amendment will prove that this report is without foundation. In reality there is no connection between the amendment and any such scheme. The idea must have been in the head of the member himself. It is not the amendment, but the use which the gentleman makes of it, that can have any tendency that way. Mr. G. never could have thought of such a way of holding up a party. As to the amendment of Mr. DEXTER, he, Mr. G., held property sacred, and never could have consented to prohibit the emigrant nobility from having slaves any more than other people. But as for titles of nobility, they were quite a different thing. They were but a name, and people were not obliged even to give them up, unless they wanted to become American citizens. As the call of yeas and nays had given such uncommon uneasiness, he, for his own part, should give it up. He was careless how the vote was taken. The other gentlemen who supported his call might act for themselves.

Mr. LEE said, he hoped that to-day the question would have been taken without further debate; he had no disposition to say any thing more on it, and should have remained silent if his colleague (Mr. GILES) had not made some strictures on the observations which fell from him on the preceding day.

Mr. L. always thought the Eastern and Southern States were well situated to unite on terms of the greatest reciprocal benefit. That, for the good of his own country, he valued such a union above all things. He knew, in particular, that it was highly important to the interests of the people whom he represented, to conciliate the cordial and affectionate esteem of their Eastern brethren. That this was not only important to his constituents, but to the whole State, and all the Southern country; as on it must materially depend the preservation of our Union, which Mr. L. feared was more necessary to our safety and prosperity than to theirs. Mr. L. said, he never saw any reason to suspect the Eastern people of anti-Republican principles; that there was no just ground to accuse them of such principles in any manner. Mr. L. had always thought that the Southern country had no right to claim a superiority over their Eastern brethren in Republican virtue. Mr. L. always lamented that his country was not, in some points, so fortunately situated as the Eastern States; but still, he rejoiced to find just ideas of liberty, and a proper respect to the rights of men, animating all the citizens of it; and in public virtue they had a right to rank with their brethren to the North and East of them. Mr. L. thought that his colleague's strongest argument was the corrupting relation which existed in Europe between noblemen and their dependants. Mr. L. feared that this argument might too readily be extended to the situation of this country, and conclusions very disparaging to their Republican virtue drawn from it, from which he had felt it his duty to vindicate them.

Mr. L. believed that the people throughout America were all animated by an equal zeal for the liberty and happiness of their country. As a person, therefore, anxious to preserve our harmony and union, he always felt pain at any question, which was, in any degree, calculated to excite suspicions of each other, and produce enmity, when concord was so much the interest of all. This proposition had, to his mind, a very denunciating aspect; and, as such, he felt it his duty to discountenance it, and every thing of the same sort, without presuming to ascertain or question the motives or designs of the mover. Mr. L. could not help viewing the motion as capable of guarding us from no one danger, but as well fitted to produce unnecessary alarm and irritation.

Mr. L. was indifferent how the question was decided; but, being a friend to harmony and union, he could by no means countenance by his vote any thing that might be construed to denounce a most respectable and patriotic part of this House.