Chapter LXXXIV: Introduction (83)

Mr. COIT said, that as he had not heard it suggested from any quarter that it would be expedient to divide the Territory into two States, he did not think it important to inquire into the powers of Congress in that respect. It is declared by the ordinance for the government of the Territory, that when there should be sixty thousand inhabitants in any one of the States there they should be admitted into the Union. If, then, it is not in contemplation to divide the Territory into two States, he considered that the right to be admitted was complete as soon as there was the requisite number within the whole Territory. But it appeared to him, that on examining the census and the law under which it was taken, they could not be considered as furnishing proof that there was that number there. He did not pretend to say that any fraud had been committed in the execution of the law, but the law itself was wholly defective. The same man might have been counted in several counties, nay, in every county in the Territory, and that without any fraud, but in strict compliance with the law; two months having been allowed for taking the enumeration, and it being enjoined on the sheriffs of the several counties to include in their enumeration all persons within their respective districts within that period.

The gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. BLOUNT) seemed to imagine that it would have been impracticable to have followed a mode similar to the one pointed out in the enumeration law of the United States, but he could not see the reason. [He read the law.]

Mr. SITGREAVES said, he felt every disposition favorable to meet the wishes of the people of the South-western Territory, and for a reason which had been given, viz: that, as they were our fellow-citizens, it was desirable they should equally participate with us in all the advantages of the General Government, and suffer no longer than was necessary the comparative humiliation of a Colonial or Territorial administration; but, from obvious considerations, he thought it highly important that they should be admitted to the enjoyment of these advantages only in conformity with the promise made to them, and on the terms of the compact entered into jointly by the United States and by them. Two constructions of this compact had been contended for; one, that so soon as sixty thousand free inhabitants should be collected within the Territory, they should be entitled to a place in the Union, as an independent State; the other, that Congress should first lay off the Territory into one or more States, according to a just discretion, defining the same by bounds and limits; and that the admission of such States thus defined, should take place as their population respectively amounted to the number of free inhabitants mentioned; that is, that the sixty thousand inhabitants could not claim admission into the Union, unless their number was comprised within a State whose Territorial limits had been previously ascertained by an act of the United States. He inclined to this latter construction, because it was conformable to the letter, and, as he understood it, to the spirit of the instrument. By the act of cession of the State of North Carolina, accepted by Congress, it is provided that the ceded territory should be laid off into one or more States, and that the people of the Territory should be entitled to all the privileges secured to the inhabitants of the Territory north-west of the Ohio, by the ordinance of 1787. The extent of their privileges, therefore, is to be determined by this ordinance, which may be called their charter. They have no other or greater privileges than the inhabitants of the North-western Territory; and it cannot be pretended that these would be entitled to admission into the Union as one State, so soon as their whole number shall amount to sixty thousand, because the ordinance itself divides that country into three separate and distinct States, each of which must contain sixty thousand free inhabitants before it can claim to be received. The actual circumstances and situation of the South-western Territory evinced the reasonableness and propriety of the construction; it is composed of two settlements, the Hoston and the Mero districts, separated from each other by the Cumberland Mountains and a wilderness of two hundred miles in width, which has always been inhabited by the Indians, and the soil and jurisdiction of which have been actually ceded to them by the United States, by late Treaties; and by an examination of the documents on the table it would appear, that when, agreeably to the act of the Territorial Legislature, the officers who took the census put to the people of the Territory the question whether they were desirous of admission into the Union; the inhabitants of the Western or Mero district almost universally answered in the negative. He would not undertake positively to pronounce on the inexpediency of forming the whole country into one State; but under the circumstances which he had stated, and until they should be satisfactorily explained to his mind, it did appear to him that the interest and the wishes of that people required a division of the Territory. It looked somewhat absurd to connect under one permanent Government, people separated from each other by natural barriers, by a distance of two hundred miles, and by a foreign jurisdiction. They had been told, by gentlemen who knew the fact, that during the period of Indian hostility, the people emigrating to the Mero district were obliged to stop five or six weeks at the eastern boundary of the wilderness, until they could collect in companies or caravans of sufficient number and force to pass in safety; the time of hostility may again return, and even a state of peace with Indians is not a state of such tranquillity or security as to preclude the necessity of caution and vigilance on the frontiers. The people of the Western district seem sensible of the inconvenience of an arrangement so unnatural as the one proposed, and so far as their wishes can be collected from the documents before the committee, they desire as yet to preserve their connection with us in its present mode, and to remain under the Territorial Government.

Mr. MACON said, he should be as unwilling to agree to the doctrine of the gentleman from New Jersey, (Mr. DAYTON,) as he was unwilling to agree to his. As to the people of this Territory attaching themselves to any other nation, he should not have thought it could have been suggested. There was no more likelihood of their going over to any other government than there was of any other State doing the same thing.

Mr. GALLATIN said, how the resolution on the table, or the doctrine he had asserted, supported the idea that that Territory would have a right to separate from the Union, he could not see, and he should be glad to be informed. So far from it, his opinion was that if they were a State, they were at the same time a member of the Union; that they could not exist as a State without being one of the United States. The only difference of opinion was whether an act of Congress was necessary previous to their being recognized as such; and if any doctrine could lead to the conclusion of the SPEAKER, it was that of those gentlemen who thought that Congress must form them into a State, several months before they were admitted into the Union. In that intermediary situation, whilst declared a State and not one of the United States, they might, perhaps, claim, as an independent State, a right to reject an admission in the Union. But those consequences could only flow from the doctrine he was combating; the principle he was supporting was that no previous act was necessary, that there could not be two acts upon the subject; but that one and the same act must recognize them as a State and admit them in the Union.

Mr. BLOUNT hoped the original resolution would not be rejected for the sake of the gentleman from New Jersey. He did not wish to give up the right to which these people were entitled; though perhaps the law might not pass the Senate.

Mr. HARPER objected to the mention of the Senate, as to what was likely to be done there. He hoped they should adopt the resolution of the gentleman from New Jersey.

The question was then taken on the original resolution reported by the select committee, and carried by 41 to 35.

The committee rose and the House took up the consideration, when Mr. KITCHELL proposed a resolution in the place of that which had been agreed to in a Committee of the Whole, as he thought some law should be passed by Congress recognizing the Territory as a State, before they were admitted into the Union. It was negatived; and the original resolution was agreed to by 43 to 30, as follows:

YEAS.--Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, David Bard,
Lemuel Benton, Thomas Blount, Richard Brent, Nathan Bryan,
Dempsey Burges, Thomas Claiborne, John Clopton, Jeremiah
Crabb, William Findlay, Jesse Franklin, Albert Gallatin,
William B. Giles, James Gillespie, Andrew Gregg, Wade
Hampton, Robert Goodloe Harper, Carter B. Harrison,
Jonathan N. Havens, Daniel Heister, James Holland, George
Jackson, Matthew Locke, William Lyman, Samuel Maclay,
Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Andrew Moore, Anthony New,
John Nicholas, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Francis
Preston, John Read, Robert Rutherford, Israel Smith,
Richard Sprigg, jr., Thomas Sprigg, Absalom Tatom, Philip
Van Cortlandt, and Abraham Venable.

NAYS.--Benjamin Bourne, Theophilus Bradbury, Gabriel
Christie, Joshua Coit, George Dent, Abiel Foster, Dwight
Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Henry Glenn, Chauncey Goodrich,
Roger Griswold, Thomas Hartley, Thomas Henderson, James
Hillhouse, William Hindman, Aaron Kitchell, George Leonard,
Samuel Lyman, Francis Malbone, Theodore Sedgwick, Samuel
Sitgreaves, Jeremiah Smith, Nathaniel Smith, Isaac Smith,
William Smith, George Thatcher, Uriah Tracy, John E. Van
Allen, Peleg Wadsworth, and John Williams.

SATURDAY, May 21.

_Military Establishment._

The amendments of the Senate to the bill fixing the Military Establishment were read. They went to the retaining the whole number of light dragoons and the Major General, and directing that men should be enlisted for five instead of three years. The amendment respecting the dragoons being under consideration----

Mr. BALDWIN informed the House that the amount of the amendments of the Senate was this, to keep up 320 dragoons instead of 52, and to retain the Major General. It appeared to him that the House, having determined upon these subjects already, would be at no loss to form an opinion upon these amendments.

Mr. WILLIAMS hoped that the amendment from the Senate would not be agreed to. This House had taken great pains to mature the bill, and he was of opinion that the number of troops agreed to was sufficient for a peace establishment. No gentleman had observed to the contrary; any addition would not only be an augmentation to the great expenses already accrued by the late war, but be a mean of retaining in the army useful citizens, who would be otherwise employed in pursuits of much more benefit to the United States.

Mr. W. LYMAN hoped the amendment would be disagreed to.

Mr. S. SMITH said, the Senate seemed to contemplate these light dragoons, on account of the officers, who were to do duty on horse or foot, as necessity required. From this idea, he would suggest the propriety of agreeing to the amendment.

Mr. KITTERA said, the army would be placed so widely from each other, that the horse would prove very useful.

Mr. GILES had no idea of keeping up the horse for the sake of the officers.

Mr. GILBERT was in favor of retaining the whole number of horses.

On motion of Mr. WILLIAMS, the yeas and nays were taken, and the amendment was negatived, 58 to 22.

The consideration of the propriety of retaining the Major General was next taken up.

Mr. NICHOLAS could not conceive any use for generals. He believed if the Senate had struck out the General they sent them, the amendment would have been a good one.

Mr. GILES hoped they should not agree to the amendment. It would be a commencement of sinecures in the Military Department. There would be generals without men to command. He believed the bill, as sent from that House, contained its full proportion of officers.

Mr. S. SMITH was in favor of the amendment. He said the expense would be no great things, and the present Major General would be very necessary in taking possession of the posts. Perhaps, at this time, it was essential to keep this man in command, as, if he were discharged, it might create a derangement in our Army which might be fatal. The command of three thousand men, it was true, was too trifling for a Major General. But, perhaps, as this General had been the victorious means of procuring us peace with the Indians, immediately to discharge him would appear like ingratitude, if not injustice.

Mr. RUTHERFORD concurred in opinion with the gentleman last up.

Mr. W. LYMAN said, they were not now called upon to reward the services of Major General Wayne, but to provide proper officers for their Army. If the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. S. SMITH) were to bring forward a measure of that kind, they should know how to decide upon it. Nor did he think the argument for making the office of a Major General, because the posts were to be received, had much weight. Any other officer would receive them as well as a Major General.

Mr. GILES said, he had no personal objections to the present commander of our Army; but he considered the present proposition such a breach of principle as he could not agree to. It was the making of an office for a man; as the gentleman from Maryland seemed to think the taking possession of the posts the principal business to be performed by him. If the services of this gentleman were necessary on that occasion, he would much rather pass a bill to make him a commissioner for that purpose. All the arguments in favor of a Major General were in favor of the man, and not of the propriety of the office.

Mr. MURRAY said, the gentleman last up must know that the gentleman who had so successfully commanded our Western Army, was now in the service of the United States, yet he would insinuate that there was an intention of creating a new office. There was no disposition in those who wished to retain this meritorious man in service to create new offices. They were now about to make a regular Military Establishment; heretofore it had rather been a nominal one. There had been hitherto a Major General at the head of our corps, and he thought it would be proper to continue the command. There appeared to him a great deal of danger from the instability of their proceedings, an instability often charged upon a Government like ours. He would not attribute this to any other motive than such as were too apt to enter into large deliberative bodies. Was it right that when a man had led our armies to victory, and returned, that he should be immediately stripped of his commission? He thought not. It was said that this was done, because the Army was reduced; but he believed it was now as large as when General Wayne obtained his victory by it, for it was not then more than three thousand men; and yet, because they wished to retain this man in the service of the United States, they were told that they were creating new offices for which there was no necessity.

Mr. NICHOLAS said, with respect to the instability of their measures, he was ready to take his own share of it as well as that of the gentleman last up, for he never found him vary from one point; he was always desirous to keep up every office which had been once established. Mr. N. thought the conduct of gentlemen extraordinary. At one time they were to make our Establishment as large as possible, and when more favorable circumstances appeared, they were not to reduce it. Where were the benefits of peace, if they were still to keep up our War Establishments? Gentlemen tell you that the Army would be as large now as before the reduction, yet the same gentlemen were opposed to its being reduced to the number now contemplated. This appeared something like inconsistency. Mr. N. said, if they did not seize every favorable opportunity of lessening the expenses of Government, he believed their constituents would have good reason to complain of their want of attention to their duty.

Mr. MACON said, they ought to legislate on this subject as if there were no Army in existence. They had no permanent Establishment, as their men were discharged at the end of every three years. He believed our present commander was a very respectable officer, but he could not vote for a Major General in the Establishment, which he thought unnecessary, because he thought him a deserving man.

Mr. BOURNE believed it was not necessary to have any appropriate number of men for a Major General to command. It had often been thought that a Major General was necessary. He believed they had thought so on former occasions. If any necessity should arise for the militia to be called out to aid the Army, such an officer would be highly necessary. He did not think it would be true economy to reject him.

Mr. GALLATIN said it was not pleasing to give a vote which was in some degree of a personal nature like the present. He was unacquainted with the gentleman who now held the office of Major General in our Army, and, therefore, was under no personal influence, and his opinion on the subject was formed upon the information of those in whose judgment on military affairs, he must necessarily confide, as it was a subject he did not understand. It was supposed that a Major General was necessary for a War Establishment, but not for a Peace Establishment. He drew this conclusion from that grade ceasing with the war in 1783, and being again introduced in 1791, when the Indian war had commenced, and he understood it was more connected with the nature of the service than the number of men. The gentleman from Maryland (Mr. SMITH) said that the nature of the service of this summer, required the service of General Wayne; but as the act they were about to pass would not take place till the 31st of October, as it was the opinion of all gentlemen of military knowledge, that there was no necessity for retaining a Major General in our reduced Army Establishment after the posts had been taken possession of, and as the whole summer appeared sufficient for that service, he would vote against the amendment.

Mr. HARTLEY thought it best to have a Major General. The expense was but small, and in case of the militia being called out (as was mentioned by the gentleman from Rhode Island) a Major General would be necessary; besides, to reject him, would have the appearance of forcing this man out of office in an ungenerous manner.

On motion of Mr. BAILEY, the yeas and nays were then taken, and the Senate's amendment was lost, 49 to 34.

MONDAY, May 23.

_Widow of General Greene._

The House went into Committee of the Whole on the petition of Catharine Greene, widow of the late General Greene, for indemnity against the demands of Harris and Blachford, of London, merchants, on account of a certain bond which had been given to them by General Greene, as was said on account of the United States. The following was the report of the Committee of Claims:

"That this petitioner prays for indemnity against the
demands of Messrs. Harris and Blachford, merchants, who
have obtained a judgment against the estate of the late
General Greene, for a large sum, in consequence of his
being security to the said Harris and Blachford, for the
debt of John Banks & Co., which debt, she states, was
incurred for, and in behalf of the United States; and that
General Greene gave security for no other purpose than to
forward the interests of the public.

"On a strict investigation of this claim, the committee
find, that in the fall of 1782, General Greene was
authorized by the Department of War to obtain supplies of
clothing for the Southern Army, then under his command;
and, not long after, he contracted with John Banks, a
partner in the house of Hunter, Banks & Co., for such
supplies.

"In February, 1783, General Greene, under authority of the
Superintendent of Finance, contracted with the same John
Banks, to furnish such provisions as the same army were in
want of; both of which contracts met the approbation of his
employers.

"Both these contracts required greater funds than the
contractors could command, and the last, which was to
supply rations for the army, was near being defeated,
because the creditors--for supplies on the former
contract--were about to deprive the contractors of their
means to fulfil the last. In this situation, Gen. Greene
had before him the alternative of turning the army loose
upon the inhabitants, to plunder for their necessary food,
or support, by his own credit, that of the contractors. He
preferred the latter, and gave, in addition to the security
of John Banks & Co., his own bond to Harris and Blachford,
to secure an eventual payment for articles which had gone
to the use of the United States in clothing the army.

"John Banks received of the United States the whole sum of
the contract, but diverted the money from its proper
channel, and left General Greene liable to pay the sum
secured by the bond mentioned above, and another to Messrs.
Newcomen and Collet. Banks & Co. became bankrupts, and,
soon after, Banks died.

"The committee find that General Greene, as soon as he was
apprised of any possible danger which might accrue to him,
took measures to procure some security; but his attempts
were ineffectual as to a complete indemnity. It appears he
effected some payments, and obtained partial indemnity, but
was left finally exposed to a large claim of Messrs.
Newcomen and Collet, and this bond about which the present
petition is conversant.

"Against the claim of Newcomen and Collet, Congress have
indemnified the estate of General Greene, by an act passed
April 27th, 1792.

"This act has served as a precedent to the committee, in
deciding on the present petition, as there are the same
reasons existing for the interference of Government now as
then; to which may now be added the weight of precedent.

"For further particulars as to the merits of the claim, the
committee ask leave to refer the House to a report of the
Secretary of the Treasury, made to Congress on this
subject, the 26th December, 1791, and which is herewith
laid before them. The bond given by Gen. Greene to Harris
and Blachford for J. Banks & Co., is dated 8th April, 1783,
for the sum of £18,473, 13s. 7d. South Carolina currency.
This sum, by a variety of negotiations and payments, has
been considerably reduced; the committee have not been able
to ascertain with precision the sum now due, but suppose it
to be between eleven and twelve thousand pounds.

"The committee are of opinion that General Greene gave this
bond with the sole and honorable motive of serving, to his
utmost ability, the then pressing interest of the United
States: and that the salvation of the Southern Army, and
success of our arms in that part of the Union, in a great
measure depended upon this timely interference of his
private credit.

"They think the honor and justice of Government is pledged
to indemnify the estate of General Greene, and by paying
the sum due to Harris and Blachford, save a deserving
family from indigence and ruin. They therefore report, for
the consideration of the House, the following resolution,
viz:

"_Resolved_, That the United States ought to indemnify the
estate of the late General Greene, for the sum due on a
bond, given by the said General Greene to Harris and
Blachford, bearing date April 8, 1783, for the sum of
£18,473, 13s. 7d., South Carolina currency, as surety for
John Banks & Co.: _Provided_, That it shall appear, upon
due investigation, by the officers of the Treasury, that
the said General Greene, in his lifetime, or his executors
since his decease, have not already been indemnified, for
the contents of the said bond: _And provided_, That the
said executors shall make over to the Comptroller of the
Treasury, and his successors, for the United States, all
mortgages, bonds, covenants, or other counter securities
whatsoever, if such there are, which were obtained by
General Greene in his lifetime, from the said Banks & Co.,
or either of them, on account of his being surety for
them, as aforesaid; to be sued for in the name of the said
executors, for the use of the United States: And the
officers of the Treasury are hereby authorized to liquidate
and settle the sum due to the estate of the said General
Greene, to indemnify the same as aforesaid, according to
the true intent and meaning of this resolution; and to pay
such sum as may be found due on the said bond, out of the
Treasury of the United States, to the said executors, to be
accounted for by them, as part of the said estate."

After some debate on this subject, in the course of which the SPEAKER read, in his place, a letter he had received from the Secretary of the War Department, in consequence of a resolution passed on Saturday, calling for a letter which had been written by the late Colonel Burnett to the late Secretary of War, declaring that no such letter could be found in the War Office; and Mr. COIT spoke at considerable length against the claim--at length the question was put and carried in favor of the report, there being 51 members in the affirmative. The committee then rose, and the House took up the consideration, when, on motion of Mr. BLOUNT, who said he had intended to have made some observations on this subject, but finding the majority so large in favor of the report, he could not believe what he should say would have any effect, the yeas and nays were taken and stood, yeas 56, nays 26, as follows:

YEAS.--Fisher Ames, Abraham Baldwin, David Bard, Lemuel
Benton, Benjamin Bourne, Theophilus Bradbury, Richard
Brent, Dempsey Burges, Thomas Claiborne, William Cooper,
Jeremiah Crabb, Abiel Foster, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel
Gilbert, William B. Giles, Nicholas Gilman, Henry Glenn,
Chauncey Goodrich, Christopher Greenup, Robert Goodloe
Harper, Carter B. Harrison, John Hathorn, Jonathan N.
Havens, John Heath, Daniel Heister, William Hindman, George
Jackson, John Wilkes Kittera, Samuel Lyman, William Lyman,
Francis Malbone, John Milledge, Frederick A. Muhlenberg,
William Vans Murray, Anthony New, John Nicholas, John Read,
Robert Rutherford, Samuel Sitgreaves, Jeremiah Smith,
Israel Smith, Isaac Smith, Samuel Smith, William Smith,
Richard Sprigg, jr., John Swanwick, Zephaniah Swift, George
Thatcher, Richard Thomas, Mark Thompson, Uriah Tracy, John
E. Van Allen, Philip Van Cortlandt, Abraham Venable, Peleg
Wadsworth, and John Williams.

NAYS.--Thomas Blount, Nathan Bryan, Samuel J. Cabell,
Gabriel Christie, Joshua Coit, Isaac Coles, George Dent,
Samuel Earle, Jesse Franklin, Albert Gallatin, James
Gillespie, Roger Griswold, William B. Grove, Wade Hampton,
George Hancock, Thomas Henderson, James Holland, Aaron
Kitchell, Matthew Locke, Samuel Maclay, Nathaniel Macon,
Andrew Moore, Nathaniel Smith, Thomas Sprigg, Absalom
Tatom, and Richard Winn.

The resolution was referred to the Committee of Claims, to report a bill.

[The facts, as stated in the course of debate, were as follows:

A little time before the evacuation of Charleston by the English, in the fall of the year 1782, a number of merchants who had settled there, under British authority, were under the necessity of leaving the city. Thus situated, these merchants were willing to dispose of their goods in a way that would secure their money, and enable them to leave the country immediately. John Banks knowing of this, and being, it is said, a man of a speculative disposition, determined to avail himself of this offer. He therefore went into Charleston, at a time when General Greene was lying not far from its walls, and there made a contract with Messrs. Harris & Blachford for goods to the amount of £50,000, which were delivered to him under the firm of Hunter, Banks & Co. After Banks had made this purchase, he entered into contract with General Greene to supply the Army with clothes. Some time after that contract had taken place, the Army was in want of provisions, and the supplies were cut off, and about to fail, when Banks came forward and made a contract to supply the Army with provisions; but the funds which were to enable him to fulfil this contract, were in the goods he had lately bought, and an interference of his partners and creditors took place. The creditors were afraid if these goods were disposed of for that purpose, their security would be lessened, and his partners were not willing that he should convert their joint property to his own particular benefit--for they, it seems, were to have nothing to do with the provision contract. To surmount these difficulties, security was required. The creditors of Banks would be satisfied, if security was given. In this state of things, General Greene became security for Banks, in his first purchase. Banks afterwards received the whole sum of the contract, but diverted the money from its proper channel, and left General Greene liable to pay the sum secured by the bond to Harris & Blachford.

The question in the committee was, whether General Greene entered into this security with the sole view of obtaining provisions for his Army in a time of distress, or whether he had some concern or partnership in the transaction. The following particulars were mentioned, to prove that the security was given for no other purpose than that of obtaining food for his men. The first purchase of Banks was made in September, 1782; the evacuation of Charleston took place in December following. Banks's clothing contract was made a few days previous to the evacuation; his proposal for the provision contract was made about the same time, but not actually entered into till the 18th of February, 1783, and not completed till General Greene's security was given on the 8th of April. On the 7th of May, General Greene got a counter security. It could not be seen, as was observed, for what purpose General Greene entered into this contract, if it were not for the relief of his army. Had General Greene been a partner, would he have required security of Banks six months after the contract, when business was going on extremely well--when Banks was in good credit, and making money, and when no doubt could be entertained of him? It was insisted he would not: but, having no connection with him, he thought it prudent to obtain a counter security.

On the other hand, various suggestions were thrown out which had somewhat of a suspicious appearance--such as General Greene's forcing his men to buy clothing, &c., of Banks, at an exorbitant price, reports in the Army, a letter said to be written by the late Colonel Burnett, who, it appears, was a partner of John Banks, intimating that General Greene was a partner in the concern, though his name was never mentioned in it; but nothing like proof appeared to the committee upon which to ground any reliance. Indeed, if General Greene had any concern with Banks, it seemed to be a matter which could not be proved, as, in General Greene's lifetime, he brought an action against Mr. Ferry, one of the partners with Banks, which was tried at Charleston, when every thing in Mr. Ferry's cause depended on proving General Greene a partner; but he failed in doing it, and having failed, it was said to be pretty strong presumptive evidence that it could not be proved; because Mr. Ferry might have brought a cross bill against General Greene, and oblige him to declare on oath that he was in no way interested in the suit, which he did not think it proper to do.

The report of the committee was at length agreed to, as before stated, and a bill ordered to be brought in, which subsequently passed. By this decision, between £11,000 and £12,000 sterling will be paid out of the Treasury of the United States to the executors of General Greene. The yeas and nays, on the passing of the bill, stood, 55 to 24.]

FRIDAY, May 27.

_Amy Dardin's Horse._[79]

On motion of Mr. CLAIBORNE, the House formed itself into a Committee of the Whole on the report of the Committee of Claims on the petition of Amy Dardin, who prayed for compensation for a very valuable horse which had been impressed during the war. The report was against the petitioner, on the ground of the act of limitation barring the claim. The case appeared a hard one, as a widow and orphans were in want of the money; and several members having suggested that application had been made before the act of limitation took place, proof of which could be substantiated, the committee rose, and the papers were recommitted to the Committee of Claims.

MONDAY, May 30.

_Military and Naval Appropriations._[80]

The House went into a Committee of the Whole on the bill providing appropriations for the Military and Naval Establishments; when,

On motion of Mr. W. SMITH, the blank for the sum for the payment of the Army was filled with $273,666.

Mr. W. SMITH proposed to fill up the next blank, for the subsistence of the officers of the Army, with $68,480.

Mr. GALLATIN said, he was not ready to vote for this object. It had been usual to appropriate the subsistence of the officers and non-commissioned officers and privates all in one sum. He did not know what were the separate calculations.

Mr. W. SMITH believed that it had been usual to put the two subjects together heretofore, but the Secretary of War had suggested the propriety of placing them under different heads. It was therefore done.

Mr. GALLATIN said, when he objected to this plan of putting the two objects together, it was not merely on account of the arrangement, but because he did not know the amount calculated for the different descriptions. He knew, however, the rations were calculated at 30 cents. He would move to fill the blank with 20 cents, which would be two-thirds of the amount proposed. He would give his reasons for thus filling the blank. It would be found, by a communication from the Secretary of the Treasury at the commencement of the session, that, in the estimate for the Military Department, rations were charged 15 cents each, making the whole subsistence for 6,000 men $367,061; notwithstanding the nominal Army Establishment had been reduced one-half, the total amount of expense was estimated as high as before. The items upon which an increase had been made, were subsistence, hospital, ordnance, and quartermaster's departments, and protection of frontiers. It would be found that, in the second estimate of the Secretary, lately made, rations were estimated at 30 cents each, which made the whole amount of subsistence $437,762.

This difference in the estimate led the Committee of Ways and Means to an inquiry into the business, because, as the nominal establishment was decreased from 6,000 to 3,000 men, they had hoped there would have been some decrease of expense also. They received for answer, that rations could not be contracted at Detroit for less than 30 cents each; but though this, by the contract, was the price of rations at that post, they could not suppose they would cost the same at the other posts. It also appeared, from the information received from the Secretary of the Treasury, that the contract which had been made, was upon these terms--to furnish rations either at Detroit at 30 cents, or at Pittsburg at 11 cents, the place of delivery being at the option of Government. It would be seen that there was a difference betwixt those two prices of 19 cents; and he would ask whether any gentleman in that House believed that it would cost 19 cents per ration to transport them from Pittsburg to Detroit? He did not think that transportation would, on an average, cost 9 cents. The distance by land was not 200 miles; and water carriage would reduce it to 20.

Mr. W. SMITH said, if agreeing to this motion would save the money, it would deserve attention; but, if they were to make the appropriation so small as to embarrass Government, it would be much worse than if they were to vote for a little too much. There would be a certain number of men who must be fed, and he thought they might rely upon the Administration's not giving more for rations than was necessary. But, if the sum voted was too small, what would be the consequence? The rations must be got, be the prices what they may; the men must be fed. Difficulties would arise if the fund appropriated should prove inadequate. He did not see that there would be any real saving by reducing the sum appropriated.

Mr. BOURNE hoped the blank would be filled up with the sum proposed by the gentleman from South Carolina. It had been stated that rations might be purchased at Pittsburg for 11 cents, but they could not be bought for less than 30 at Detroit, and he thought they could not calculate upon any other price than that, as it was uncertain whether or not the contract would be fulfilled; and if it failed, and the Secretary of the Treasury was obliged to purchase at Detroit, if they calculated the rations at 20 cents only, he would not be able to purchase the necessary provisions for their men; but if, on the contrary, 30 cents were agreed to, there would be enough in any case, and if the ration could be bought for 20 cents, he did not fear that the money would be expended unnecessarily.

Mr. VENABLE said he should not feel himself justified in appropriating more than was necessary for the object before them; for, if they were not to be guided by a proper estimate, they might as well at once give an unlimited power on the Treasury. All the expenses could not be estimated to be made at Detroit. If one-third of our men were kept at Detroit, he should think it a large number. Why, then fix the price as if the whole Army was to be kept there? And, even in that case, 20 cents would be a large appropriation. Why, then, embarrass themselves by making a larger appropriation than was necessary? The Army would be extended on the whole frontier, and at some places rations would be bought cheaper than at Pittsburg.

Mr. DAYTON (the Speaker) observed, that the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. GALLATIN) assumed as undeniable, and established as the foundation of his arguments and objections, what he did not only not admit, but absolutely denied, viz: that the rations of provisions would cost the United States more when delivered at Detroit, than at any other post. He believed there were two or three others at which the price would be higher than at Detroit, and mentioned Michilimacinac in particular. The gentlemen who were for reducing this item of appropriation, had referred to the contract which had been made some time since, and had, at the same time, acknowledged the extraordinary advance in the price of the necessaries of life, even in the interior of the country. The latter event, said Mr. D., was of a nature to excite much fear that the contract would be thrown back upon the United States, owing to the inability it would create in the individuals to fulfil it, and ought, therefore, to prompt Congress to guard against such an exigency, by a more ample provision than would otherwise have been requisite.

Mr. W. SMITH said there was one fact which he forgot to mention. The Secretary of the Treasury informed the Committee of Ways and Means that the contractor would lose money by the contract to deliver the rations at 11 cents at Pittsburg, and it was possible, therefore, that it might not be fulfilled. Gentlemen say--why provide the money if it be not wanted? They seemed to mistake the business; the money was to be borrowed, and if not wanted, it would not be taken. No more would be expended because there was more than sufficient appropriated. There would be no money lying unemployed in the Treasury.

Mr. GALLATIN believed the gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. SMITH) would not deny that his information was correct. The contract was made to deliver the rations either at Pittsburg or Detroit, at the option of Government. To calculate the whole number of rations at 30 cents, was considering the whole Army at Detroit; and, though it be true, that there be one post more distant than Detroit, yet, the greater number were far nearer, and consequently, where provisions would be got cheaper. Therefore, considering the price at Detroit to be the general price, was allowing too much. This, he believed, would not be controverted.

Mr. NICHOLAS said, he should be glad to know what was the price of rations in the Atlantic States. One half of the Establishment would be upon the Eastern waters, and, therefore, the money necessary to be appropriated would depend, in some degree, upon the price of rations there. He thought 20 cents would be a full average price for the whole.

Mr. HAVENS said, that if they were to fix the price too high, it might produce a combination amongst the contractors to advance the price--as he believed there was a greater likelihood of combination than competition amongst them. He knew this was no reason why they should fix the price too low, but he thought it was a consideration which should lead them to vote for the proposition of the gentleman from Pennsylvania.

The original motion was put, and negatived, 34 to 31; and then Mr. GALLATIN's, to fill the blank with $45,606, was put, and carried.

Mr. W. SMITH moved to fill the next blank, for the subsistence of non-commissioned officers and privates, with $369,282, which was calculating the rations at 30 cents each.

The question was put, and negatived, 33 to 30.

Mr. GALLATIN then moved to have the blank filled with $246,188, which was calculating the rations at 20 cents each.

Mr. DAYTON hoped that the sum named would not be agreed to; if it were, he believed that the soldiers of the Army would not be subsisted. He was satisfied that gentlemen who proposed and advocated so scanty and inadequate sums had the same views as he had; but he was, nevertheless, convinced, that so far from promoting economy, they would eventually produce profusion.

Mr. DAYTON concluded with saying, that he did not wish to appropriate lavishly, but his sole aim was to avoid any of those serious consequences which would inevitably flow from an ill-judged parsimony; and he should sit down and console himself under any event, with the reflection, that he had discharged his duty.

Mr. W. SMITH moved to fill the blank with $360,000, which was carried, 34 to 31.

On motion of Mr. W. SMITH, the blank for forage was filled with $16,592, and that for clothing was filled with $70,000, without debate. He proposed to fill the blank for providing horses for cavalry, with $7,500; when

Mr. BLOUNT observed, that he thought it unnecessary to provide for the purchase of horses, when they had resolved upon reducing the number of troops.

Mr. GALLATIN said he would just notice, that when the full number of horses was kept up, the appropriations for clothing were the same as now, and those for horses were less. The former estimate was $6,000 for horses; now, $7,500; so that the more they reduce the Army, the greater was the expense.

Mr. MACON believed, there were as many horses now in the service as would complete two companies, and they could not, with any propriety, calculate upon one-half dying. He moved to strike out the item altogether.

The motion was put and negatived, 33 to 26.

Mr. HAVENS said, he did not vote for striking out the item altogether, as he supposed some money would be wanted, but could not think so much as had been mentioned was necessary.

The motion for $7,509 was put and carried, 34 to 31.

On motion of Mr. W. SMITH, the blank for bounty was filled with $10,000, and that for Hospital Department with $30,000, without objection. He also proposed to fill the blank for the Ordnance Department with $48,907, when

Mr. GALLATIN said, that this sum was $11,000 more than the former estimate; $1,000 of which was owing to an increase of rent. The other additional item of $10,000 was for contingent expenses; but, as they had a distinct head for contingent expenses he thought that the contingencies would be best, all of them, placed under that head. He therefore moved to have the blank filled with $38,907.

Mr. WILLIAMS proposed $40,000, which was carried.

Mr. W. SMITH proposed to fill the blank for the Indian Department with $70,000.

Mr. GALLATIN said, it would be recollected that they had already made two appropriations under this head; the one for establishing trading-houses with the Indian tribes, the other for carrying into effect several treaties. On inquiry what reason there was for this appropriation, he could only find one, viz: that a treaty was expected to be held in Georgia, at which 3,000 Indians were to be present. He had supposed this expense was to have been borne by Georgia, but it was alleged that a part of it would fall on the United States.

The motion was put and negatived, 33 to 26; when

Mr. W. SMITH proposed $60,000. He would mention, that the Secretary of War had been called upon to give a reason why so large a sum should be appropriated; when they were told of the treaty which the gentleman from Pennsylvania had mentioned, and that it would be necessary to have a large store for the purpose of feeding and clothing the Indians who attended it. The motion was then put and carried, 31 to 28.

Mr. W. SMITH moved to fill the blank for the Quartermaster's Department with $250,000.

Mr. GALLATIN said, it would be remembered that in the estimate at the opening of the session, this item was calculated at $200,000. The reason given for this advance, was, that the expense of removing stores, ordnance, &c., to new posts, would be very considerable; but, it would be recollected, that $200,000 only were appropriated for that purpose in the time of war, when the Army was liable to be removed very often. The present estimate was for a Peace Establishment, when their men, once removed to the new posts, would be stationed; and the appropriation, instead of for 6,000 men, was now only for 3,000. He moved to insert $200,000, instead of $250,000.

Mr. BLOUNT said, he supposed the taking possession of the posts was contemplated when the first estimate was made. It was then known the British had stipulated to surrender them on the 1st of June.

Mr. W. SMITH said, it was not certain when the first estimate was made, whether that House would have ratified the treaty; and, if not ratified, the posts would not have been got. The increased calculation was owing to the expense in transporting ordnance, stores, &c., to the posts.

Mr. ISAAC SMITH said, it would require more cannon for one of those posts, than were required by all the Army.

Mr. BLOUNT said, they had had sufficient proof to lead them to believe, that the PRESIDENT did not think that House had the power mentioned by the gentleman from South Carolina, and, therefore, he doubted not but the first estimate was made with reference to the expense of taking possession of the posts.

The motion for $250,000 was put and negatived, 31 to 26; when $200,000 was put and carried.

Mr. W. SMITH, moved to fill the blank for contingencies of the War Department with $30,000; which was carried without opposition. He then proposed to fill the blank for the defence and protection of the frontiers with $150,000.

Mr. GALLATIN said, he certainly wished the frontier to be protected, but he could not think so large a sum necessary for that purpose. The sum last year appropriated was $130,000; and now we had peace with the Indians, which was secured not only by a treaty with them, but by treaties with Great Britain and Spain, he could not account for an increased expense.

The motion for $150,000 was put and negatived; $130,000 was then proposed and carried, 34 to 33.

Mr. W. SMITH proposed to fill the next blank, for the completion of the fortifications, &c., at West Point, with $20,000.

Mr. NICHOLAS inquired if there was any law on this head?

Mr. W. SMITH said, there was an act to authorize a provision for this purpose, but that act had expired. He believed, however, it might properly come in there. This expense, he was told, was necessary to make the posts tenable, and that if no money was expended, the fortifications would be lost. He believed this item might properly be considered as a part of the Military Establishment.

Mr. NICHOLAS said, he did not object to the propriety of the expense, but to the manner of introducing it. It would apply to New York as well as West Point. He considered the admission of West Point as the admission of a principle to which all the surplus appropriations might be applied. All the fortifications, he said, were in the power of the Executive; but, as they had had a committee appointed on the business, whose report they had considered, he thought they should act consistently. He therefore moved to strike out the clause.

Mr. WILLIAMS hoped this item would not be struck out, and that the PRESIDENT would be enabled to extend aid to the fortifications at New York; if not, the works would go to decay.

Mr. VAN CORTLANDT said, that fortifications ought to be attended to, and that he should vote for them.

Mr. GILES hoped the motion would prevail. There had been a committee most of the session, to consider the subject of fortifications. If these fortifications stood in need of repair, the PRESIDENT should have given the information to that committee. He thought the item improper in the present bill.

Mr. GALLATIN believed the gentlemen from Virginia were mistaken. The committee which had been appointed was to consider the fortifications of our harbors only. The works at West Point were of a different description, and the estimate included not only the completing of the fortifications, but the building and repairs of barracks and stores which had been destroyed. The present item could not extend to fortifications in general, as had been apprehended; for, though the Secretary of the department does not confine the money appropriated to one object, to that particular purpose, yet, he cannot expend it on any object which was not contained in the act of appropriation. He moved to add, "magazines, store-houses, and barracks." Agreed to, and also the sum.

Mr. W. SMITH then moved to fill the blank for the fortification of forts and harbors with $50,000.

Mr. GALLATIN said, this item he should move to strike out. A committee had been appointed, and had reported on this subject, and that it was not necessary to attend to it at present, as there was a surplus of $23,000 unexpended. If they were to agree to the present sum, it would be appropriating an additional sum of $50,000 for the same object; he hoped, therefore, that it would be struck out.

Mr. W. LYMAN was in favor of striking it out.

Mr. WILLIAMS hoped it would be agreed to, on the ground of the necessity of some attention being paid to the works at New York.

Mr. DAYTON was in favor of striking out this item altogether, as there really was not money to spare for objects not essential. If any particular harbor had been, or could be mentioned, the committee might better be enabled to judge whether it would be fit, at this time, pressed as they were for resources, to make an appropriation for fortifying it, and how much. But, as he knew of none, and believed there were no such, he should certainly be opposed to appropriating a single shilling for this purpose. He meant not to say, that there were not ports in the United States which might be advantageously fortified, but only, that this country was not yet in a situation to justify their encountering such an expense, especially as it did not appear to be immediately necessary.

The motion for striking out was put, and carried.

Mr. W. SMITH moved to fill the blank for the pay of officers, seamen, and marines, with $113,025.