Chapter LVI: Introduction (55)

Mr. GOODHUE spoke a few words, in direct opposition to what had been advanced by Mr. DAYTON. The two propositions ought to be discussed separately. We had sent a negotiator to Britain, and a sequestration would put an end to his business. The citizens of the United States ought to be taxed, in the mean time, to pay these losses; and it was possible that a sequestration might, hereafter, be thought advisable. He very strongly pressed the idea of a tax to this end. It would be a proceeding of the most superlative impropriety, to lay on such a sequestration at this particular juncture, when we had just agreed to take off the Embargo, because our ships would go to England, and be all seized, by way of reprisal.

Mr. CLARK recommended that both propositions should be laid aside for the present, and be suffered to take a sweet nap together, till a more convenient time. He spoke with much contempt of the notion of taxing the people of this country to pay for the ravages of Britain. The Court of London would say to the world: "You see that we acted right: you see the United States think so likewise; for they themselves pay their merchants."

Mr. GILES agreed with Mr. CLARK: but as there is a necessary sameness in the arguments on this question, and as they have already been detailed in so many different forms, it seems needless to repeat them over again so frequently. He said that when this tax came to be levied, every farmer would say, every man in America would say, "We shall have nothing to do with this business. Why don't you indemnify British depredations out of the British property that is within your grasp?" He had heard that Congress ought to decide an abstract proposition, viz: that this Government was, in any event, bound to pay the recent losses of its merchants by sea; and then proceed to assign funds for the payment. He thought that before Congress undertook any such engagement, they ought at least to be possessed of the money requisite to discharge it. He hoped that the House would never proceed to a vote in support of any abstract axiom, especially where taxes and public money were concerned, till they had carefully digested the collateral circumstances.

Mr. DEXTER spoke against the amendment. He said, that very strong reasons existed both for taking into consideration a proposition for indemnity to the sufferers, and also against connecting it with sequestration or any other subject. Each ought to stand or fall on its own merits. The sufferers were numerous, and deserving citizens; they had waited a long time, and had a right to know, before the close of the session, what protection they were to expect from the Government of their own country. Sequestration, without a change of political circumstances, would never pass both Houses of the Legislature; to connect them, then, would be to deny relief, without even examining the principles on which they claim it. He said, British debts had been called the only proper and natural funds: in his opinion, they would be no fund at all, even if sequestration could be adopted. The debts would never be collected; and not only so, but sequestration would be the beginning of hostilities, and war must ensue; this, at the same moment, would prevent all hope of obtaining justice from Britain, and also discharge our own Government from every obligation to indemnify. Mr. D. said he would state what, in his opinion, was the proper and natural fund--the money to be demanded of Britain by our Envoy Extraordinary. Should this fail, the Government of America would either pay the sufferers, or grant them letters of marque and reprisal. This, he said, is the constant course of nations, and this the sufferers have a right to demand, as a counterpart of their allegiance. Mr. D. said, it had been objected that the British Government would be encouraged by it to refuse a recompense. This, if true, would be a serious objection, for he had always viewed negotiation as affording the only probable chance for indemnity to the sufferers. If a recompense be refused by Britain, war will be the consequence. The objection, however, he thought, would be entirely removed, by attending to the resolution itself. It is not, he said, a provision for taking the debt on ourselves, but merely to _guarantee_ a recompense to the sufferers. The very word itself implies that the Government of America is not the principal debtor, but is to compel another to make indemnity, or become the debtor. Mr. D. closed with saying that he had attended only to the reasoning of the gentlemen, and not to their personalities. It was not his practice to leave the question, to impute to others motives either corrupt or paltry: if they chose to glean imaginary laurels on this ground, he was not anxious to share them; they could best judge whether, in this way, they were likely to increase their reputation or benefit the public.

Messrs. AMES, MURRAY, SMITH, (of South Carolina,) and HILLHOUSE, also spoke against the amendment, and said the merits of neither proposition were now before the House, but only the mode in which the subject should be considered; that they were in themselves separate and independent, and ought to have a separate and independent consideration; they were questions of very great national concern, and that blending them together would give an undue bias, and neither would be fairly and impartially decided. It was doubtful whether the resolution for sequestration ever ought to be adopted, and that to connect the two subjects, would be to hang a millstone about the necks of the sufferers; that, as they were a numerous and very meritorious class of citizens, their claim merited a candid and full examination, unembarrassed with any other matter.

A warm dispute arose about the form in which the question on this resolution should be taken. The point actually contested seemed to be, whether the resolution was to be referred to the committee on Mr. DAYTON'S motion for the sequestration of British property, or to a separate committee, which was insisted on by the mover, Mr. GOODHUE.

A division took place upon the question of agreeing to Mr. DAYTON's amendment, to add, after the words "be referred to a Committee of the Whole," the following words, viz: "to whom were referred the resolutions for sequestering the British debts;" and the yeas and nays being called for, were taken--yeas 57, nays 31, as follows:

YEAS.--Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, John Beatty,
Thomas Blount, Elias Boudinot, Thomas P. Carnes, Gabriel
Christie, Thomas Claiborne, Abraham Clark, Isaac Coles,
William J. Dawson, Jonathan Dayton, Henry Dearborn, George
Dent, William Findlay, William B. Giles, James Gillespie,
Alexander Gillon, Christopher Greenup, Andrew Gregg, Samuel
Griffin, William B. Grove, George Hancock, John Heath,
Daniel Heister, William Hindman, John Hunter, Matthew
Locke, William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison,
Joseph McDowell, Alexander Mebane, William Montgomery,
Andrew Moore, Peter Muhlenberg, Joseph Neville, Anthony
New, John Nicholas, Nathaniel Niles, Alexander D. Orr, John
Page, Josiah Parker, Andrew Pickens, Francis Preston,
Robert Rutherford, Thomas Scott, John S. Sherburne, John
Smilie, Israel Smith, Silas Talbot, Philip Van Cortlandt,
Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Benjamin Williams, Richard
Winn, and Joseph Winston.

NAYS.--Fisher Ames, James Armstrong, Benjamin Bourne, David
Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Joshua Coit, Samuel Dexter, Thomas
Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Nicholas
Gilman, Henry Glenn, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, James
Hillhouse, Henry Latimer, Amasa Learned, Richard Bland Lee,
Francis Malbone, William Vans Murray, Theodore Sedgwick,
Jeremiah Smith, William Smith, Zephaniah Swift, George
Thatcher, Uriah Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van
Allen, Peter Van Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth, and John Watts.

And then the main question being put, that the House do agree to the said motion for commitment, as amended, it was resolved in the affirmative.

FRIDAY, May 16.

_Revenue Bill: Salt and Coal Tax._

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill laying additional duties on goods, wares, and merchandise imported into the United States, and on the tonnage of ships or vessels.

The three cents per bushel of additional duty on salt was objected to by Mr. FINDLAY, as oppressive to his constituents.

Mr. AMES was convinced, that this was much better than a land-tax. It was beyond all comparison, more cheap, more certain, and more equal in the collection than a land-tax. He would rather tax salt, at even half a dollar per bushel, than agree to a land-tax.

Mr. CLARK would be very glad to hear the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. FINDLAY) specify, upon what subject he was willing to pay a tax? It was beyond the comprehension of Mr. C., for what sort of a tax the gentleman was prepared to vote, or, indeed, what sort of taxes the Western settlers of Pennsylvania pay. We lay a duty on sugar. They make sugar for themselves. We lay a tax on tobacco. They are to manufacture for themselves. We lay an excise on distilleries. They refuse to pay this tax, and, in fact, they do not pay it. We tax wines; but we are told that these people are poor. They cannot, therefore, afford to drink wine, on which the duty is very heavy, for that duty is paid only by the rich. We tax the importation of foreign fineries, such as silk, but silk also is not the dress of poor people, so that here again the constituents of the gentleman get off. We are going to tax the importation of foreign coals, but they have plenty of their own, and so far from paying a tax on them, are cutting a canal to bring them down to Philadelphia; which will drive out the importation of foreign coals, and so destroy the tax altogether. Under these circumstances, Mr. C. was solicitous to learn what taxes the back settlers paid, for, as far as he could understand, they paid none; and their Representative would do well to inform the House on what they were willing to pay a tax. Was Government to be burdened with them, and derive no compensation? Was it a sufficient reason for exempting a district from public burdens to say that the people are poor? Are taxes to be paid exclusively by the rich?

Mr. RUTHERFORD objected to this duty on salt. It was often to be carried from one to three hundred and fifty miles inland, and in fact, it frequently costs twenty shillings per bushel. No tax could be so universally unpopular as this would be.

Mr. FINDLAY replied to Mr. CLARK. As to sugar, though some of his neighbors made theirs, Mr. F. bought his own in Philadelphia. As to silks and other female fineries, his constituents did just like other people. They spent, in that way, as much as they could possibly afford, and had among them ladies very well dressed. As to other matters, his constituents purchased their manufactures in Philadelphia, and paid for them as other people did. Salt, he said, was known to be necessary for cattle in the back country. He was strongly against the tax.

Mr. GILLON likewise opposed the tax on salt. It had been proposed, in the State which he represented, but never could be carried through.

On a division, it was rejected--ayes 32, noes 47.

A motion was made for striking out twenty-five cents per ton of additional tonnage, on foreign vessels, in order to insert fifty.

It was passed in the negative--ayes 39, noes 41.

After going through the bill, the committee rose, and the House went into consideration of the amendments made in Committee of the Whole.

On the subject of an additional duty on coal imported, Mr. GILES said, that the rise was very moderate, from four and a half to six cents per ton. A Boston company was about, as he understood, to embark in this business, but waited to see the steps taken by Congress. There was as much coal in Virginia as would serve all America and Europe besides.

Mr. WADSWORTH would have the additional duty restricted to all coal imported in foreign vessels.

Mr. HEISTER wanted to know, whether the price of coal had not been already doubled within these few years. He was informed that coal imported had of late risen from six dollars per ton, to twelve dollars and a half.

Mr. FITZSIMONS said, that a few years would put an end to importation altogether. He defended the tax. He saw no danger to any of the manufactures in America, that make use of foreign coal arising from this tax. Nothing but a capital was wanting to make America supply herself.

Mr. SHERBURNE recommended the amendment of Mr. WADSWORTH, as to the restriction of this duty to foreign bottoms.

Mr. MADISON worded this amendment, "on all vessels not belonging to citizens of the United States;" because foreign bottoms might belong to people of this country. He was not solicitous about the fate of the motion. The amendment was lost; but the original motion was carried.

SATURDAY, May 17.

_Tobacco and Sugar Duties._

The bill laying a duty on tobacco manufactured, and sugar refined, in the United States, was read a second time.

Mr. LYMAN opposed its passing to a third reading, on the ground that those articles deserve yet the fostering care of Government, and are entirely incapable of bearing such a burden; for, even now, notwithstanding the present protecting duties, they, especially the article of manufactured snuff, are yet imported. He also objected to the bill from the exceptionable nature of an excise.

Some objections were made to the propriety of opposing the bill in its present stage.

Mr. CLARK thought the bill unnecessary, because the two and a half per cent. of additional impost would supply all the wants of the public. He thought that the bill had an _immoral_ tendency, because it tempted men to perjure themselves. It was oppressive, as making every man's house liable to be searched at midnight. He thought it also would produce an expensive mode of collection. He, therefore, objected against it, as unnecessary, of an immoral tendency, as oppressive, and expensive. He had always voted against it, and he always should persist in voting against it.

Mr. AMES pressed the necessity for money, and the want of other funds to discharge the services of the current year. He said, that to impose taxes was an unpopular office, and exposed members to dislike. Perhaps they might be _persecuted_; but it was still requisite for members to perform their duty. He had a great repugnance to the excise as established in Europe; but in America it was of a different nature. To reject the present bill would place the finances of this country in a very alarming point of view. If this bill was thrown out, we might bid farewell to firm and determined measures. We must go home when we are to lay a tax, and ask the people whether or not they like it.

Mr. NICHOLAS went into the old arguments against excise. He was severe on the general character of excise officers, whom he represented as the dregs of society. Very few persons in America would accept of such an office at all, and those who accepted of it, were by no means of a respectable rank in life.

Mr. FITZSIMONS.--There are as good men employed in the collection of the revenue as any others in the country, not excepting the gentleman himself; and men who are as well liked by their neighbors.

Mr. W. SMITH.--The rejection of the bill at this time will not decide the principle of excise; if rejected, it will not be owing to the arguments against it, but to the absence of a great many members, who never dreamed that the question would have been brought on to-day, and who do not even know that the bill has been so much as reported. The practice is uncandid, and unprecedented, to endeavor to reject a bill at this stage, before it has been printed, and the members know its contents. Was it fair and consistent, in a thin House, to reject the bill without any further consideration than one reading, for the sake of form, a reading, to which _nobody had listened_? How was this to settle the principle of excise? Was it not already settled in the constitution and by existing laws? But a new argument had been this day resorted to; there was a surplus of revenue in the Treasury, without new taxes, and this had been discovered since this tax had been agreed to. If this argument was founded in fact, it would put an end to all debates on all the new taxes; but what was this notable discovery? an additional two and a half per cent. on impost. This was no discovery which could change the question, for it was agreed to before the duty on manufactured tobacco and sugar; and the latter had been therefore established by the House, with a knowledge that the former was laid. He asked if, in the present situation of the country, all dependence was to be placed on commerce? How could certain members reconcile this proceeding with their former votes and language? But the other day we were to prohibit all commercial intercourse, to sequester debts, and to prepare for war. Now, we are to derive the whole of the revenues from trade; the same gentlemen who urged these measures were now defeating every kind of revenue which might be productive. There was something so extraordinary in this, that he could not account for it. It was said, that the Committee of Ways and Means ought not to have reckoned on a defalcation, in the impost of $1,300,000, but the gentlemen assign no reasons for their assertion, whereas the committee founded their report on the best information. Admit, however, that it is doubtful; was it safe, in the present critical state of the country, to place all dependence on _external_ resources, which were every moment in danger of being cut off? Did not duty require a provision for the defence and safety of the United States by _internal_ resources? This was certain, that the extra appropriations of this year exceeded those of any former year by two millions and a half of dollars. Where was the money to come from? The members in opposition to this tax, voted out land and salt; they endeavored to vote out stamps and carriages. They will agree to nothing but impost. Are the merchants to be saddled with the whole burden, because, like friends to order and tranquillity, they have not called _town-meetings, or published inflammatory resolves_? It is said, war is no longer expected; this country is willing to submit to every thing. Was this insinuation pointed at Congress or the Executive? It was unfounded in either case; because negotiation was tried, it did not follow that either the one or the other branch of the Government were disposed tamely to submit to injury; for himself, he was ready to aver that, if proper reparation were not obtained, he should be for war. The balance now being trembling on its beam, and no one could say whether it would settle for peace or war, he was for preparing seriously for the latter, while he strove to preserve the former. Pecuniary exertions were indispensable; it might be a pleasant thing to oppose taxes, and the advocates of new taxes might be obnoxious, but this would not draw him from his duty. The increase of excise officers had been mentioned; the bill did not propose a single one; the bad character of the excise officers had been mentioned; the supervisors were among the most respectable men in the United States, and the inspectors were as virtuous as the officers of the customs. The embarrassments, the taking of oaths, &c., were not more applicable to manufacturers than to merchants and captains, who could not enter, or unlade, or clear out, without difficulties, embarrassments, and oaths; but this was disregarded, as if they had less feeling than other people. As to the injury to morals, the necessary oaths required by all revenue laws were not injurious to the morals of the honest, and those who swore to the truth; and, as to those who were disposed to commit frauds and perjuries, no injury could be done to the morals of those who had none. Mr. S. wished that less had been said in the way of general reflection on the collectors of the revenue. Some years ago, a member of that House, when they were at New York, attacked the tide-waiters. There happened to be a tide-waiter in the gallery, who wrote, next day, a pretty smart letter to the member who had spoken so freely of his profession.

Mr. NILES hoped that no gentleman would say, that he wished to see the Treasury empty. He would, for his own part, be glad to know whether there was a deficiency or not, clearly stated. He did not see so much as some others did, in the objections to an excise. It was _called_ an excise, it was true, but we do not know yet the way in which it is to be levied; so, we cannot tell whether there will be any hardship in it or not. He went over some of the statements of different gentlemen, but on the whole, there was so much contradiction in the assertions of different members, that Mr. N. knew not what to make of them.

Mr. BOUDINOT moved that the House adjourn, which they did immediately, at three o'clock.

MONDAY, May 19.

_Impressment of American Seamen._

Mr. MURRAY moved, that a committee be appointed to report a bill to provide such regulations as may enable American seamen to obtain and carry evidence of citizenship, for the purpose of protecting them from impressment into foreign service. He said, that it was a reasonable expectation that the subject of this resolution should be seriously attended to, at any time; but there were the most urgent reasons for an attention to the situation of our fellow-citizens of this description at the present period. That the evil of impressment into foreign service existed, no gentleman could doubt, and it was equally doubtless, that it was the duty of Congress, as far as they could, to provide a remedy for the evil. A few years since, when Britain armed her navy against Spain, on the Nootka-Sound question, it had been the fate of several hundreds of the American seamen to be impressed into a service which they abhorred. For a proof of this fact, he would recall the remembrance of the House to the claim made by Mr. Cutting for repayment of money actually expended by him, in the liberation of seamen in this humiliating situation. Congress repaid Mr. Cutting two thousand dollars. That they had thus attended to this claim was proof that the fact complained of existed. The evil arose, not more from the extreme insolence of disposition of the pressgangs, than from a real difficulty of discriminating American citizens from British subjects. The difficulty was in similarity of language, dress, and manners; and from the deficiency of evidence of citizenship, which, in a foreign port, could not always be obtained. For, though the Lords of the Admiralty of England had laid down certain rules, in the case that he had mentioned, the rules laid down had exacted so rigid and pointed an oath, from personal knowledge, that they scarcely could, in any case, be complied with. A captain might, in many instances, _believe_ his sailor to be an American, and yet not think himself warranted in making oath to this fact. The object of his resolution was, that seamen, who are American citizens, might all pursue a uniform line of evidence in proof of citizenship, and that, by an entry of such evidence solemnly obtained in the clearances or other authentic papers of the ship, the same weight and authority should be given to their part of a ship's papers as were, in all cases, given to all sea letters and other papers. He believed that, if the subject went to a select committee, a particular regulation on this subject might be digested, which would, in many cases, if not in all, afford such good evidence of citizenship, as would save American seamen from the injustice and cruelty that many, he believed, now actually suffered under; for he had heard that a number of them had been impressed in the West Indies on board of the British fleet. He was not so sanguine as to imagine, that any law could give full protection to our seamen; for he was convinced that, in order to give complete protection, certain rules of evidence must first be recognized, by convention between this country and Britain, stipulating the extent of certain political principles relative to alienage and allegiance. Till, however, that is done, he thought it the duty of Congress, and particularly at this disturbed period, to afford every aid in its power to this class of citizens. To bring the subject before the House, he had moved the resolution, which he gave notice that he would call up to-morrow.

_Tobacco and Sugar Duties._

The House then resumed the consideration of the bill for laying a duty on manufactured tobacco and refined sugar, which had been debated and postponed on Saturday.

Mr. GOODHUE wished for a delay. He had seen a gentleman from Pennsylvania, last night, whom he did not now see in his place in the House, and who was making out an estimate, whether the money proposed to be raised by these taxes would be wanted or not. If they could really do without the money, it would be better to reject the bill.

Mr. SHERBURNE thought that the question might be delayed, till it was seen whether the sums to be produced by this bill, would be actually required or not.

Mr. DAYTON believed that the money was wanted. He would therefore vote for the bill. It was incumbent on gentlemen who objected to the bill, to show that the money would not be wanted.

Mr. SMILIE and Mr. LEE rose at the same time.

The SPEAKER observed, that Mr. SMILIE had risen first.

Mr. LEE said, that the gentleman from Pennsylvania had already spoken twice on this subject and he _insisted for order_. [Mr. L. referred to the proceedings of Saturday, for Mr. SMILIE had not spoke any before, this day.] Our time, said Mr. L., is too precious to be wasted in talking, when every gentleman is competent to give his vote already. I call for the question. His opinion was, that the money was not yet wanted; and that it was being too provident to vote for taxes, before they were required by necessity.

Mr. W. SMITH contended, that there would be a very considerable deficiency. He asked, who would lend us money, if there was such a difficulty in establishing funds to pay the interest of it?

Mr. WADSWORTH hoped that the bill would not be altogether thrown aside. There was part of it that he approved, and part of it that he did not perfectly approve. In discussing this question, much stress has been laid upon the two and a half per cent. of additional impost on importations, as if _that_ would be a fund for the increase of revenue, and supersede the necessity for some other taxes. Mr. W. assigned his reasons for believing that this supposition was perfectly chimerical. Within the last six months, American vessels and property had been captured by the British privateers in the West Indies, to the extent of _one million of dollars_. This will make the importations less, by at least five hundred thousand dollars, and, of consequence, destroy a great part both of the old and new impost. Property to the extent of one-fourth of a million of dollars, perhaps, had likewise been seized by the Spaniards, and other nations had most likely taken as much more. The total loss to American commerce could not, therefore, be less than _fifteen hundred thousand dollars_. The imposts on importations must, therefore, be very much reduced; as from Britain, for example, there would not, in his judgment, be one-fourth part of the imports, from this time to the first of December, that had been formerly. And no man could imagine that, at the most, they would exceed one-half of their former amount. The British merchants would be afraid, on account of the matters that had been proposed. These people, they would say, have been laying embargoes, and speaking of sequestration, and indemnification. We must be cautious. Mr. W. added, that it was possible enough, that America might, in the fall, be at war with Britain; and then impost and importation will fall together. These were his motives for believing that the two and a half per cent. would be of no great consequence. It had been said, that the ten per cent. would produce a large augmentation. He did not, from the diminished quantity of imports, believe that it would be _so much_, by twenty or thirty per cent. as the old seven and half duty had produced. Mr. W. next reverted to the bill before the House. One part of it (the duty on snuff) he could not agree to. The other part, refined sugars, would fall on those who could afford to pay it, and after all that had been said against this bill, he was firmly convinced, that, so far from injuring the manufacture, it would thrive the better for this tax. He, on this account, hoped that the bill would pass, in spite of his objection to some things that might, perhaps, be corrected. He then replied to the complaints of some gentlemen, who, as an excuse for repeating over and over again their former arguments and opinions, observed, that they had not received an answer. It was very likely that they might think so, and he, for his part, did not think that he had been _answered_. This kind of reasoning had no end. Perhaps it was impossible for him, or gentlemen of his sentiments, to answer the opposite side of the question. And, again, perhaps the gentlemen of the opposite opinion could not answer them. The matter must rest there, and the question come to a vote.

Mr. FITZSIMONS was convinced that there was a deficiency, and a great one. But he was not fully prepared to speak upon the subject; though he was sure of the fact. He did not wish to hurry the subject. The bill might be printed.

Mr. NICHOLAS was sorry to have learned that he had, on Saturday, made a general reflection on a profession of men. With some gentlemen, in the line referred to, he had as strict a friendship as with any persons on earth. He said, that ten lines of figures, which he had in his hand, would satisfy the House, that the taxes in the present bill are not wanted. He then began a detail of considerable length, to which Mr. FITZSIMONS replied.

Mr. TRACY.--One gentleman says that we have a surplus of three millions; another, that we have a surplus of one million. It is very strange for gentlemen to be coming forward in this stage of the debate, and to say that money is not wanted, after the want of money has been so frequently advanced, and admitted, in the House. It is unaccountable, that there should be a contradiction on a point of this nature. He next went into a long series of calculations.

He objected to the estimate of the impost of 1793, that was reckoned upon for the current expenses of 1794. A great part of this impost was still due, by bonds. The persons who had given these bonds were, many of them, broke by the British depredations in the West Indies; and, in fact, a large proportion of that impost never would be paid in to the collectors of the revenue.

He was displeased with the way in which some gentlemen had spoken of the national debt. He had no share, for his own part, as a creditor; but a part of his property must go to the discharge of it, and he should cheerfully pay it. He did not agree with those gentlemen who, in the event of a peace, would not wish to replenish the Treasury. It was curious, that the House had now been assembled for nearly six months; and that their chief object had been to discover ways and means for raising public money. A bill for that purpose had been brought in; and just when it was on the point of being passed, we make a sudden and wonderful discovery, that no money is wanted; but that we have an overplus of three millions of dollars. The thing cannot be. The calculations are not founded on truth. He did not believe that members understood the bill. He could demonstrate that there was occasion for a supply of money.

Mr. MADISON thought that the arguments on each side of this question might be reduced to a narrow compass. If peace continues, he supposed it likely that the revenue would not fall so far short, as the committee had apprehended. But if there was a war, the expense would much exceed any thing yet thought of. He was for laying aside the subject at present, and if a rupture with England should ensue, he would then recommend, at once, a _direct_ tax, and that these excise acts should be entirely thrown aside. If there was no war, he believed that no new taxes were required; let the matter therefore die, as to the present. He disapproved the principle of the tax, and should, on that account, think himself justified in voting against it.

Mr. GILLON rose, and replied to several gentlemen, who were for the excise on tobacco, snuff, and loaf and lump sugar; and observed, that he had partly obtained his object, by drawing gentlemen forward, with the calculations which had been kept back. But as the gentlemen, after having, by their own account, been three months on this subject, avowed that his request of detailing those large sums came rather unexpected, and that they wished to have more time to make their calculations, he had not much objection to let this bill have a second reading; but he hoped they would be accurate, in proportion to the time taken to preface them. As to the idea of our general taxes not taking place until the first of next March, that had no weight with him; because he knew the Civil List for the year was not all then due, nor would all the sum for military and naval preparations be to be paid down, the day the ore was dug for the guns, nor on the day that the first tree was cut to begin the frigates.

He agreed that a deficiency might arise on the supplies now due, for the terms which the gentlemen had assigned by the plunder of our merchants' property. He was happy to find that gentlemen had not lost sight of the serious applications they had received from that respectable and utile body (the merchants) for redress; and he should take care to remind gentlemen of their own observations, when the requests of the merchants were brought forward, as he was clear something must be done, either by restitution on the debts to be sequestered, a loan for them under the guarantee of the Union, or by prolonging the time to a remote period, of paying the duties that they owed. He was accused of making _wonderful discoveries_, of making calculations not founded in truth. The latter he denied, for, if there is any untruth in them, it cannot be on his side, but must have arisen from the committee; therefore, to them be the untruth applicable, as he did not make use of a figure but what they placed in their report.

He still retained his opinion, that surplus revenue was dangerous in the hands of any Government. What did they want to do with it? He hoped nothing else but to buy up the national funded debt as cheap as they could, which act was pardonable, only by the intent, he presumed, they must feel of at last doing justice to our late armies. His meaning was, that the profits arising from this speculation should be kept as a sacred deposit out at interest, and that interest to be employed towards paying off the interest due on the principal losses which our brave officers and soldiers had met with, by being obliged to part with their shares of pay at a very inferior value. This you may better pay to patriotism and misfortune than pay to speculators.

Mr. TRACY.--If I have said what is alleged, the language is too indecorous to be used by me to any gentleman on this floor. If any thing of that kind has escaped from me, I am ready to ask the gentleman's pardon. I have the highest respect for his character.

And the question was then put, Shall this bill be rejected? It passed in the negative--yeas 31, nays 56, as follows:

YEAS.--Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes, Gabriel Christie,
Thomas Claiborne, Abraham Clark, Isaac Coles, William
Findlay, William B. Giles, Alexander Gillon, Andrew Gregg,
Daniel Heister, William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, James
Madison, Joseph McDowell, William Montgomery, Andrew Moore,
Peter Muhlenberg, Joseph Neville, Anthony New, John
Nicholas, Josiah Parker, Francis Preston, Robert
Rutherford, Thomas Scott, John Smilie, Thomas Tredwell,
Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Richard Winn, and Joseph
Winston.

NAYS.--Fisher Ames, James Armstrong, Theodorus Bailey,
Abraham Baldwin, John Beatty, Elias Boudinot, Benjamin
Bourne, Lambert Cadwalader, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin,
Joshua Coit, William J. Dawson, Jonathan Dayton, Henry
Dearborn, George Dent, Samuel Dexter, Thomas Fitzsimons,
Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, James Gillespie, Nicholas
Gilman, Henry Glenn, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Samuel
Griffin, William Barry Grove, Thomas Hartley, James
Hillhouse, William Hindman, John Hunter, Henry Latimer,
Amasa Learned, Richard Bland Lee, Matthew Locke, Francis
Malbone, Alexander Mebane, William Vans Murray, Alexander
D. Orr, Andrew Pickens, Theodore Sedgwick, John S.
Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, William Smith,
Zephaniah Swift, Silas Talbot, George Thatcher, Uriah
Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van Allen, Peter Van
Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth, Jeremiah Wadsworth, Artemas
Ward, John Watts, and Benjamin Williams.

The said bill was then read the second time, and ordered to be committed to a Committee of the whole House on Wednesday next.

_Augmentation of the Army._

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill to augment the military force of the United States; and after some time spent therein, the Chairman reported that the committee had had the said bill under consideration, and made amendment thereto; which was read, as follows:

Strike out the first section of the bill, in the words following, to wit:

"_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives
of the United States of America in Congress assembled_,
That there shall be raised, for the term of ---- years, or
during a war which may break out between the United States
and any European Power, an additional military force,
consisting of twenty-five thousand non-commissioned
officers, privates, and musicians, together with a proper
proportion of commissioned officers of all grades,
respectively, according to the present Military
Establishment of the United States:"

And on the question that the House do agree with the Committee of the whole House in the said amendment, it was resolved in the affirmative.

A motion was then made and seconded to amend the said bill, by inserting, in lieu of the section stricken out, the following section, to wit:

"_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives
of the United States of America in Congress assembled_,
That there shall be raised, upon the terms and conditions
hereafter mentioned, an additional provisional military
force, to consist of ---- non-commissioned officers,
privates, and musicians, together with a proper proportion
of commissioned officers."

It passed in the negative--yeas 30, nays 50, as follows:

YEAS.--Fisher Ames, John Beatty, Benjamin Bourne, David
Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Jonathan Dayton, George Dent, Samuel
Dexter, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert,
Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, James Hillhouse, William
Hindman, Amasa Learned, Richard Bland Lee, Francis Malbone,
William Vans Murray, Theodore Sedgwick, William Smith,
Zephaniah Swift, Silas Talbot, George Thatcher, Uriah
Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van Allen, Peter Van
Gaasbeck, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and John Watts.

NAYS.--James Armstrong, Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin,
Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes, Gabriel Christie, Thomas
Claiborne, Abraham Clark, Joshua Coit, Isaac Coles, William
J. Dawson, Henry Dearborn, William Findlay, William B.
Giles, James Gillespie, Alexander Gillon, Nicholas Gilman,
Henry Glenn, Christopher Greenup, Andrew Gregg, William
Barry Grove, Daniel Heister, John Hunter, Matthew Locke,
William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Joseph
McDowell, Alexander Mebane, William Montgomery, Andrew
Moore, Peter Muhlenberg, Joseph Neville, Anthony New, John
Nicholas, Alexander D. Orr, Josiah Parker, Francis Preston,
Robert Rutherford, Thomas Scott, John S. Sherburne, John
Smilie, Israel Smith, Thomas Tredwell, Philip Van
Cortlandt, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Richard Winn,
Benjamin Williams, and Joseph Winston.

And then the question being put that the said bill, as amended, be engrossed and read the third time, it passed in the negative. And so the said bill was rejected.

FRIDAY, May 23.

_Tobacco and Sugar Duties._

The House went into a committee, Mr. TRUMBULL in the chair, on the bill for an excise on tobacco, snuff, and refined sugar.

In the first section, it was agreed to strike out the words, "tobacco and." This proposed that the word tobacco be struck out in every subsequent part of the bill, so that the duty be confined to the manufacture of snuff.

Mr. MUHLENBERG (The SPEAKER) moved to strikeout the second section, "that from and after the ---- day of ---- there be levied, collected, and paid, upon all sugar which shall be refined within the United States, a duty of two cents per pound."

He would not trouble the committee with any comments on the excise, enough having already been said on that subject; although he could not forbear mentioning, that in England, where almost every thing was subject to an excise, and where the Minister is ever on the watch to discover new articles for that purpose, loaf sugar had never yet been taxed, the Committee on Ways and Means had all the credit of the seasonable discovery. The reason for not attempting an excise on this article was obvious, because the manufacture employed a greater quantity of shipping than any other, they therefore rather wished to encourage than to depress it; the former of which they effectually do, by allowing a generous drawback on exportation of refined sugar, for which the different ports of the Continent afford them a constant and ready market. The case was widely different here. The manufacture is yet in its infant state--it has to contend with the old established ones in Europe, who have larger capitals and can afford longer credits, whereas we have not only no market to export it to, but even now already, can annually make a quantity more than sufficient for the consumption of the United States. It is true, it appears from the last returns, that upwards of 200,000 lbs. of refined sugars were imported last year, which is about the same quantity which two houses might furnish in one year, but it is to be observed, that owing to the high price of raw sugars, some establishments were not worked at all, whilst others did not work above eight or nine months in the year, and I will here, said Mr. M., venture to assert, that if this duty of two cents actually takes place, some of those who are now engaged in this difficult and expensive business will abandon it and turn their capitals into other channels. I do not stand alone in this opinion; others, of more experience, join me, and it is founded on the following incontrovertible facts. Raw sugars have for several years past been so high, that refined sugars naturally bore an equally high price. This has already lessened the consumption, to a considerable degree, in the United States, and from the present prospect before us, when the French islands are in the hands of the British, the probability is, that they will rather be higher than lower; and if the two cents be added to the present high price of refined sugars, the consumption will still be lessened in the same proportion as the price of the article increases. This observation is founded on facts, which every person concerned in the business has felt, and daily experiences; nay, it can be proved, however strange it may appear, that a less quantity of refined sugar is consumed at present in the United States, than a year or two before the Revolution. Again, owing to the high price of refined sugars, and which must be still higher when this duty takes place, many even of our opulent families have, in a great degree, abandoned the use of it, and substituted the white Havana, or the white East India sugar. I well remember a remarkable instance of this kind which took place not many months ago in this city. A gentleman having imported a considerable quantity of white East India sugar, sold it to the refiners of this place. Before the sale was concluded, he reserved a quantity for himself and an opulent friend of his. The consequence was that neither himself nor his friend used half the quantity of refined sugar they had used the year before.

Permit me to add another circumstance. Sugars are higher at present, and from a variety of circumstances must continue to be higher here than in England, and although an additional duty on imported loaf and lump sugar may take place, unless it exceeds what I have yet heard mentioned, they will be able to undersell the manufacturers here, and this from the single circumstance of their being allowed a drawback of 26_s._ sterling per cwt., for if even a drawback of the same sum was allowed us here, which is not to be expected, it cannot operate, because we have no market for this article. In the West Indies, it is well known to be contraband, and to transport it to Europe, would be carrying water into the ocean, and even then it could not be accomplished on as low terms as the Europeans can afford to do it.

One fact more, equally incontrovertible, suffer me to add. By the additional duty on coal, which I am far from disapproving, because I wish to encourage the consumption of our home productions, you have, in fact, laid an additional tax on sugar. Every work of this kind consumes annually from 2,000 to 4,000 bushels. This article was heretofore at the rate of eleven pence or one shilling per bushel; owing to the duty on imported coal, it has now risen to 2_s._ to 2_s._ 4_d._ This naturally enhances the price of the article made in this manufacture, which is already burdened to a considerable degree with taxes or duties. Thus, there is a duty on the raw material, a duty on the paper they use, a duty on the twine, a duty on the coal, and, to crown all, a duty is intended on the article produced in this devoted manufacture. If it is thus my friend from Connecticut means to do us good, or if this is the decided encouragement and protection my colleague means to yield us, it is such a one as I am sure the manufacturer will not thank him for.

Sir, I could add that this bill partakes strongly of the nature of a sumptuary law; that in case of a war it will not produce you any revenue, because the supplies of the raw material are too irregular, and no other but imported sugar is refined, which already pays a duty; and that by this duty you not only lessen the consumption, but also increase the number of those who cannot pay for it; but I forbear to trespass any longer on the patience of the committee on this subject.

But, Mr. Chairman, we want money to build our frigates and arsenals, to fortify our ports and harbors, and to release our unfortunate brethren in captivity. We want revenues. If this really be the intention of the committee, and not merely to establish the principle of excise on home manufactures, no one will join more cheerfully in such measures as shall appear most prudent and most likely to obtain the object, and which, in my opinion, will neither injure the commerce of this country, nor in an equal degree the manufactures, nor indeed the poorer sort of the community who consume the article of sugar.

By the last returns which I could lay my hands on, it appears that there are annually imported into the United States upwards of twenty-five millions of pounds of sugar, and from the same returns it appears that about four or four and a half millions are exported, which are allowed a drawback of the duty on exportation; thus then there are upwards of twenty millions of pounds annually consumed in the United States.

You have, in the late impost bill, imposed an additional duty of one cent per pound on coffee; half that sum additional duty on raw sugar will yield you upwards of 100,000 dollars. This then will at once yield you the sum which the committee expected from an excise both on sugar and manufactured tobacco, and will neither injure the merchant, nor in an equal degree the manufacturer, nor indeed the poor; the latter, and in my opinion none but the idle can be so, as well as many others, have long since substituted molasses for all the purposes for which they heretofore used sugar; besides which the American sugar is daily getting more into use, and bids fair to become general, at least at and near the frontiers.

When, therefore, it is considered that this manufacture is yet in its infancy in the United States; that it has to contend with the old established ones of Europe; that there is no excise on this article in England; that this manufacture employs a great quantity of tonnage; that raw sugars are high here, and comparatively low in Europe; that there is a drawback in England, which operates as a bounty, and which from local situations cannot operate, if even granted, with the same advantage here; when it is reduced to a certainty that the duty will operate injuriously on the manufactures here; and when it appears that double the sum can be raised by a trifling additional duty on raw sugar, without any additional expense or inconvenience, and which will effectually remove the evils complained of, I flatter myself the motion will prevail.

Mr. FITZSIMONS objected to the proposal of the SPEAKER, for a tax of half a cent per pound on common sugar imported. The unrefined sugar formed a considerable portion of the subsistence of the poor. Formerly, the price of it was not more than sixpence, (currency,) but it is now twelve pence per pound. The coffee duty was another, to which Mr. F. had felt reluctance, because coffee is an article of universal consumption, and the tax upon it falls where taxes ought not to fall, that is upon the poor; but there is no help for it. He would, if possible, have avoided this tax, for coffee, formerly eleven pence or a shilling per pound, has risen to one shilling and ten pence. Mr. F. said, that we are able to lay a heavy enough tax on imported sugar effectually to protect our own sugar refiners. It had been said that the two cents per pound duty would make it requisite for the refiners to augment their capitals. This he could not believe, because the Executive gives credit to the manufacturers for the payment of the duty. Mr. F. said, that the time was perhaps not distant, when we shall be obliged to seek sugar in the East Indies. Britain has acquired the West Indies, which will increase the difficulties of this country in obtaining it from that part of the world.

Mr. MCDOWELL hoped that the section would be struck out. He objected to the principle of the bill. He considered it as highly impolitic to tax the infant manufactures of America. He would rather, if the Public Treasury could afford it, give a premium for the encouragement of our manufactures, to dissolve the dependence of the United States upon Europe. This dependence of ours has repeatedly been urged as a reason why the House ought not to adopt certain commercial regulations and restrictions. Some gentlemen had undertaken to prove that the manufacturers would be benefited by such laws, an assertion which he considered as very extraordinary. The manufacturers themselves understood their business best, and thought quite otherwise. This tax will not only alarm those already engaged, but will prevent other men of enterprise and capital from engaging in manufactures, when they find that the moment their business becomes profitable, they are to be taxed.