Chapter LXII: Introduction (61)

Mr. HILLHOUSE observed, that when the amendment was first introduced, he considered it as altogether harmless and unnecessary; but, being friendly to what appeared to be the object of the mover, that is, keeping out privileged orders from among us, he was inclined to vote for it. Yet, upon more mature reflection, he was of opinion that if the provision contained in the amendment had any effect at all, it would be a directly contrary one from what was intended, and would indirectly establish the principle that privileged orders might be introduced and exist among us, a principle which he wholly rejected and reprobated; and, as he did not doubt that the views of the gentleman who moved the amendment were similar to his own on that subject, he hoped that, upon further consideration, he (Mr. GILES) would withdraw it. It was his opinion that the ground upon which foreigners should be admitted to a share in the administration of our Government ought to be narrowed in every possible way, and if the gentleman would so modify the amendment as wholly to exclude that class of foreigners, or any other, from ever becoming citizens, so far as to elect or to be elected to any office, he would most heartily join in giving his vote for it. In those nations where privileged orders are admitted, the benefits and advantages arising from it have been considered as merely local, so that, if a nobleman removes from one nation to another, he is not considered as carrying with him the privileges of his order; as, for instance, if a nobleman from any other nation removes to England, where an hereditary nobility is established by law, and even becomes naturalized, he is not a peer of England; he is no more than a private subject, and can claim nothing on account of his former rank. The Convention who formed our constitution undoubtedly viewed the subject in that light, or they would have been equally anxious to have provided against the importation as of the creation of nobility; but, passing this amendment will, as far as the influence of a law and the opinion of Congress can go, be putting a different and wrong construction upon the constitution, and will be admitting that there may be some other mode of introducing a privileged order or a nobility among us, than the one guarded against in the constitution; for, if a law is passed requiring a person, before he shall be admitted to a certain privilege, to renounce some other privilege, it is clearly admitting that such person does or may possess such privilege, otherwise the law is futile, requiring a person to renounce what he does not or cannot possess.

Mr. J. WADSWORTH rose next. He had been up four times before, but, other gentlemen always rising along with him, he had sat down again. Mr. W. said, that a rage against nobility and privileged orders now pervades the whole world. He really did not see the use of this amendment. It put him in mind of an old law which, within his memory, had been in use. When a man had shot himself, his neighbors were not contented with the certainty of his being dead in this world, and damned in the next, but, besides all this, they drove a stake through his body. Mr. W. regarded nobility as in a similar situation with such a man, for nobility appeared to him in the certain road to instant destruction; and this amendment of Mr. GILES, he thought, was like driving in the stake. The latter practice had been laid aside, and he thought that the amendment deserved the same fate. He reminded the House that the time had been when America was very much indebted to nobility, and very glad to see them fight her battles. We might now be taxed with ingratitude on that head, for some of those identical French noblemen, who, during the late war, had rendered us essential service, were now in this country in a state of beggary, subsisting on the charity of their friends. Others of the same noblemen were in dungeons, and some again had got their heads chopped off. He was warranted to say that many of those noblemen, when here, during the war, and long before a French revolution had been talked of, were, in their hearts, as good Republicans as any Americans whatever. We had seen, some time ago, a party spirit rising in the United States. He had observed that the thing was dying away, but the present amendment would afford a new theme. The newspapers are extremely numerous, and he doubted not that the writers in them would embrace so notable an opportunity for exercising their talents. As to the notion that there was a danger of nobility being introduced into this country, the thing was held in such detestation in America, that he had no more apprehension of its obtaining a footing here than he had that there would arise a new race of men without heads, or with their heads placed below their shoulders, or any other unnatural production. In short, he did not know a thing so impossible as the establishment of an American nobility. Knowing this, he regarded the amendment as entirely useless. As to the call for the yeas and nays having an impression on his vote, that was out of the question. He knew his constituents, and they knew him; and they were both too well acquainted with each other for a trifle of this nature to have any influence. To him the call was a matter of the utmost indifference, and he took this opportunity to declare frankly that he should vote against the amendment, whether the yeas and nays were called or not.

Mr. NICHOLAS could not consent to abandon the proposition. It might be said that he did so in terror of the amendment of Mr. DEXTER, which he thoroughly despised.

Mr. BOUDINOT had not designed to speak on this question, but there was one objection to the amendment, which occurred to him, and which had not been noticed by any gentleman. This was, that it would be an act of injustice to make a man do an act in this country which might affect his own interest, and that of his family in another. This case might very possibly happen. A person, by renouncing nobility here, might he debarred from claiming its privileges in another place, when it would, perhaps, be for his advantage.

Mr. AMES observed, that too much attention had been given to the amendment as an abstract question. Nothing tended more to bewilder and confuse a debate than such a departure from the subject into abstractions and refinements; for, although by this means we found that plain principles were rendered obscure, and reasonable doctrines carried to excess, yet we did not seem to reflect that nothing is more opposite to just principles than the extremes of those principles. For instance, it would not be safe or proper indiscriminately to admit aliens to become citizens, yet a scrutiny into their political orthodoxy might be carried to a very absurd extreme. The merit of the amendment depends on its adaptedness to the end proposed by the bill, and what is that? To make a rule of naturalization for the admission of aliens to become citizens, on such terms as may consist with our tranquillity and safety. Now, said he, do we think of refusing this privilege to all heretics in respect to political doctrines? Even that strictness would not hasten the millennium. For our own citizens freely propagate a great variety of opinions hostile to each other, and therefore, many of them deviate widely from the intended standard of right thinking; good and bad, fools and wise men, the philosopher and the dupes of prejudice, we find could live very peaceably together, because there was a sufficient coincidence of common interest. If we depend on this strong tie, if we oblige foreigners to wait seven years, till they have formed it, till their habits as well as interests become assimilated with our own, we may leave them to cherish or to renounce their imported prejudices and follies as they may choose. The danger of their diffusing them among our own citizens, is to be prevented by public opinion, if we may leave error and prejudice to stand or fall before truth and freedom of inquiry.

Can the advocates of the amendment even affect apprehensions that there is any intention to introduce a foreign nobility as a privileged order? If they can, such diseases of the brain were not bred by reasoning and cannot be cured by it. Still less should we give effect by law to chimerical whimsies. For what is the tendency of this counterfeit alarm? Is it to rouse again the sleeping apparitions which have disturbed the back country? Is it to show that the mock dangers which they have pretended to dread are real? Or, is it to mark a line of separation between those who have the merit of maintaining the extremes of political opinions, and those whom this vote would denounce as stopping at what they deem a wise moderation? If that is the case, it seems that the amendment is intended rather to publish a creed than to settle a rule of naturalization. Yet it should be noticed that those who would go to extremes are less entitled to the praise of Republicanism than those who would not.

Mr. SAMUEL SMITH was sorry for the turn which the debate had taken; though at first it bore a trifling appearance, it had since called up all the warmth of the House. The gentlemen from the Eastern States, who knew the Republican character of their constituents, and how independent every man there was, both in his temper and his circumstances, had slighted the amendment as unnecessary. Gentlemen from the Southern States, on the other hand, say that they have some reason to be apprehensive. Why, said Mr. S., will not the Eastern members indulge us in this trifle? It is owned by the one party, that it can have no bad tendency; and the other imagine that it must have a good one. Then why not, for the sake of conciliation, grant it?

Mr. MURRAY was sorry that the House had begun the new year with such a discussion. He had seen with much pleasure the appearances of conciliation and unanimity at the outset of the session. He should vote for the amendment, and he hoped that those members who were against it would come round and vote for it. They would thus put an end to this motion, so wasteful of time. Of nobility, however, the gentleman had no alarming apprehensions. There had once been in this House a baronet. He was there for two years before it was known, and it was then discovered that a baronet was a thing perfectly harmless. As for titles of nobility, he believed that all the wholesome and sensible part of the community looked upon the whole as stuff. When Mr. M. contemplated this subject, it reminded him of Holbein's Dance of Death.[56] He saw nothing in this country but the ghosts of nobility. In Europe, indeed, it was a matter of importance. It established the etiquette of precedence among the ladies in leading down a country dance. The amendment was not worth much either one way or the other. But he wished it to be granted for the reasons assigned by his colleague from Maryland, who had spoke just before him.

Mr. MADISON. When the amendment was first suggested, he had considered it as highly proper, and naturally connected with the subject. No man can say how far the Republican revolution that is now proceeding in Europe will go. If a revolution was to take place in Britain, which for his part he expected and believed would be the case, the peerage of that country would be thronging to the United States. He should be ready to receive them with all that hospitality, tenderness, and respect to which misfortune is entitled. He should sympathize with them, and be as ready to afford them whatever friendly offices lay in his power as any man. But this was entirely distinct from admitting them as citizens of America before they were constitutionally qualified to become so. In reply to the remark of Mr. BOUDINOT, that a renunciation of their titles might injure their families, Mr. M. observed, that if a British revolution took place, these fugitives would, as aliens, be incapacitated from holding real estates. In discussing this question, we had been reminded of the Marquis de Lafayette. He had the greatest respect for that character; but if he were to come to this country, this very gentleman would be the first to recommend and acquiesce in the amendment on the table. He had urged the necessity of utterly abolishing nobility in France, even at a time when he thought it necessary for the safety of the state that the king should possess a considerable portion of power; and Mr. M. believed, that if he were now at freedom, he was as completely stripped of every thing relative to nobility, as it was possible he could be. It had been said, that it was needless to make emigrants renounce their rank, and that oaths were no security. He was ready to allow, that oaths were, in any case, but a very poor security, but they had been adopted in other parts of the bill, and the same reason which recommended them on former occasions might recommend them now.

Mr. W. SMITH was convinced that the amendment was wholly incompetent to the end which it professed to have in view. You may force a man to renounce his title, but what does that signify, when you cannot hinder his neighbors from calling both him, his wife, and family by the title? He replied to the argument of Mr. S. SMITH, as to the Eastern members giving up the point for the sake of conciliation with the Southern members.

He did not understand that his own constituents had any such panic about them, or that they would thank the Eastern members very ardently for such a concession. They were not afraid of aristocracy. You cannot abolish the practice; and even supposing a nobleman had made his renunciation, perhaps the very person who administered the oath, may, the next moment, say, "My Lord, I wish you a good morning!" and you cannot punish the individual who says so. As to not allowing of titles to wives and daughters, this renunciation will not prevent their being given. But in some parts of the country we have titles already. Mr. S. had often heard an old lady called "the Duchess." He could see no good consequence from the motion. There was indeed one obvious effect. The ignorant part of the American citizens--who, he hoped, were but few--would imagine that those who voted for the amendment were against the introduction of nobility into America, and that those against the amendment were for that introduction. This frivolous kind of legislation had disgraced the proceedings of another nation. They had begun to change the names of their towns and harbors, such as Conde, Dunkirk, Toulon, Havre de Grace, and Lyons. One of these they had named _Havre de Marat_, and so on. But now they were coming back to their sober judgment, and were repealing these edicts. Lyons was restored to its old name. The pillar erected to announce its rebellion and annihilation had been taken down. The Convention had formerly passed a law for demolishing houses inhabited by aristocrats, but now they began to think it was better to let the houses stand. Would any body say that French liberty was better secured by naming a harbor _Havre de Marat_? Had this done any good to the cause? But if people who were so much afraid of the introduction of nobility would look around them, they might already find in this country alarming marks of attachment to royalty. When Mr. SMITH was lately at New Haven, in Connecticut, he had observed on the top of the State House the figure of a _Crown_, which had stood there undisturbed since long before the beginning of the Revolution. He went into the State House, and found the people as good Republicans as could be, notwithstanding this crown. Again, at Middletown, in the same State, he went into a church, and on the top of the organ there was another _Crown_, which might also be interpreted as a proof of monarchical principles. Reverting to the subject of changing names, Mr. S. said, that the people in the State of New York had for a long time enjoyed as much liberty as the other States. At last, however, it was recollected that one of the streets of the city of New York was called King's street; but this was changed to _Liberty_ street, which was, to be sure, a very momentous alteration. If Congress descend to legislate in such littlenesses, they may forbid the title of Worshipful. They may abolish the order of Freemasons, which he thought that they had just as much right to do as to make the foreign nobility renounce their titles before they should be accepted as American citizens. The Congress may, among other objects of legislation, forbid any member to come into that House with an aristocratical cloak--one with gold lace, for example. He asked more than once this question: What peculiar privileges has a foreign nobleman, coming into this country, which he possessed more than all other citizens? He considered the whole amendment as totally trifling. He was content that the yeas and nays should be taken. His sentiments were known already. His name should stand among the noes.

Mr. GILES said, that there had been an echo from one end to the other of the House that his amendment was trifling. Was it consistent for the gentleman, who had been up for half an hour, to spend so much time upon a question, and then conclude by telling the House that it was nothing; that he had been talking for so long a time upon a subject that did not merit their attention? What kind of reasoning was this, or how did the gentleman propose to reconcile it? Was it consistent with the warmth which had been discovered, to say that all this discussion, all this length of time, had been consumed upon nothing? But this kind of language had something more serious in it, for this prohibition of nobility formed one of the pillars of the constitution; so that to call a principle recognized and affirmed by the constitution a trifle, or nothing, and so on, was a very unguarded proceeding. Another notable argument against agreeing to his amendment had been, that the people already detested nobility so thoroughly that it was not worth while to pass this amendment, as their hatred of it would put an end to it without a law. It was enough that the two principal reasons against his amendment, were, first, that it was authorized by the constitution, and secondly, that it would be agreeable to the people. It is strange, that the will of the people, who send us here, is to have no influence in this House, but is to be turned into an argument against passing a law! Mr. G. would adhere to his amendment, because, as the law now stands, there is nothing to hinder a foreigner with a title to become an American citizen, and obtain a seat in this House, and hold both his office and his title. Mr. G. next answered a part of the argument of Mr. W. SMITH, that making people renounce their titles would only rivet their attachment to them, and make them, perhaps, think of these things, when otherwise they would have been forgotten. Mr. G. said, it was quite a new kind of argument, that to renounce a thing, was the way to give it existence. If this rule were to hold, he believed that some members of the House would renounce things which they very much wanted. For example, he himself should possibly renounce a hundred thousand dollars. As to the call for yeas and nays, he had some time ago informed the House that he gave up this point. The thing could not affect him, either one way or another, because his sentiments were already known.

Mr. TRACY regretted that so much time should be lost on trifling subjects. We had seen the National Convention of France diminish their dignity, by spending three or four days on the business of giving a name to the late Duke of Orleans, and hardly had they finished, by giving him the _name_ of Egalité, before in _substance_ he became so bad that they cut his head off. What good did his renunciation of title do, excepting that it afforded him a short opportunity of deceiving his fellow-citizens? Mr. T. said he was fully convinced, and had been so from the beginning of the debate on the Naturalization bill, that a length of time was the only valuable probation of an alien, and the only successful mode of discerning his principles, and the justice and propriety of his claim to be naturalized. He thought the sentiments of the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. _Giles_) were highly commendable, when he said we ought to avoid extremes in politics, and adopt a sober medium of political reasoning, suited to the steady and rational temper of Americans, equally removed, on the one hand, from tyranny, and on the other from anarchy. And he would ask, whether a solemn abjuration of all foreign allegiance, with proofs of a good moral character, and attachment to the principles of our Government, would not secure us, as to the principles of the heart, as thoroughly, without the farce of renouncing his title, as with it? He considered titles, in this country, as very empty, unmeaning things; and they would go into disuse of themselves, having no solid support, either in the habits or constitution of this country. But, by the Constitution of the United States, any citizen might receive and enjoy a title from a foreign prince or sovereignty, and Congress could not prevent it. The words of the constitution are:

"No title of nobility shall be granted by the United
States; and no person holding any office of profit or
trust, under them, shall, without the consent of Congress,
accept any present, emolument, office, or title, of any
kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State."

Mr. T. supposed it was clear that Congress had no power respecting this matter, but what was expressly delegated by the constitution, and that had given them a check only on officers of their own appointment, leaving every other citizen, not an officer of Government, at liberty to retain a foreign title if he pleased. And an alien might, even if this amendment should pass, renounce his title, become naturalized, and in an hour accept of the same title, or another, from any foreign Prince, and Congress can make no laws to prevent it. If it be a fault that our citizens can receive and enjoy titles, it is a constitutional one; Congress are not blamable for it, but they would be blamable were they to arrogate powers not given them, upon this or any other subject. Mr. T. repeated, that there could be no danger in this country from titles; they were universally considered as trifles, and it would be dignifying them too much to legislate about them. He asked the gentleman who brought forward this motion, whether it was not, in a measure, a departure from his former declaration, of sober, rational temper, in politics, to insist so much upon its importance as he did? He was sorry the yeas and nays were insisted upon with so much spirit; it looked like party, in a very unimportant matter: he did not mean to accuse any man, or men, and mentioned it with diffidence, but it really struck his mind in this way. Much had been said about adhering to the constitution strictly, on former occasions; but, from many things said now, it seemed as though there was no safety for the people, unless the House of Representatives absorbed the whole governmental power. Mr. T. said, if that House should become political cannibals, and attempt to devour both the other branches of the Legislature, he would oppose it, whether it was popular or not, for he considered the constitutional checks of the branches of this Government, upon one another, as containing the most complete security for liberty that any people could enjoy. If his construction was a just one, Mr. T. thought the amendment could do no good; it formed a test which might make hypocrites, but not proselytes: it stripped an alien for a moment of a trifle, which in the next he might resume and wear for ever.

Mr. SEDGWICK.--Has it not been said that there was a party in the United States, not only for aristocracy, but even for monarchy? Is not the present a most favorable opportunity for holding up these people to popular resentment? He was convinced that the gentleman who moved this amendment had no design of doing any such thing, but that did not lessen the reality. He said that Mr. GILES had brought gentlemen into a dilemma, which he did not, or would not see. They had at first opposed the motion, as trifling, and this they had a right to do. The member (Mr. GILES) then moved his call for the yeas and nays; and if gentlemen who had already spoken against the amendment, were now to draw back, and vote for it, they would betray a disgraceful poverty of spirit. Their constituents would say that their votes had been given _in terrorem_ of the yeas and nays. The motives for pushing this call could be nothing else but to stigmatize members of that House, as wanting to introduce a nobility, whereas they opposed the amendment on no such account, but merely because it was not worth their taking up. As to himself, he did not care. He could not wish to stand better with his constituents than he actually did. He was well known to them. But, in other quarters of the continent, it might be said that the Eastern States were represented by aristocrats. If this be a desirable object, said Mr. S., in God's name, let gentlemen persist in calling for the yeas and nays. It will be said, "There go the Eastern aristocrats! They want to import nobility here, when it can no longer exist in Europe!" Mr. S. said, that, at first, he gave but little opposition to the amendment, thinking it frivolous. He repeatedly declared, upon his honor, that he firmly believed it to be so, and that he had no other reason for opposing it. If he had been, upon this occasion, warmer than usual, he was sorry for it; but the mischievous and unconciliating consequences of this call for the yeas and nays, had hurt him exceedingly.

Mr. MADISON denied the assertion of Mr. SEDGWICK, that the amendment was trifling; and the member himself seemed to betray, by his behavior, a consciousness that he had not promoted conciliation. An abolition of titles was essential to a Republican revolution, and therefore such an abolition had been highly proper in France. The sons of the Cincinnati could not have inherited their honors, and yet the minds of the Americans were universally disgusted with the institution, and in particular, in South Carolina; yet a member from that State (Mr. W. SMITH) has told the House that his constituents were under no fears of aristocracy, and that they could hear titles without emotion. Even the Chief Magistrate of South Carolina had told the Cincinnati that these distinctions ought to be laid aside.

Mr. HILLHOUSE thought it quite frivolous to spend time upon the motion. That was all his objection. It had been said that, allowing the amendment to be trifling, yet it was no harm to make an idle law, and that therefore it should be agreed to for the sake of conciliation. Supposing a man to make a will, bequeathing a hundred thousand guineas, when he was not worth a shilling, there would be one serious effect at least, for it would make the testator ridiculous. To legislate for the sake of expressing a sentiment, was very silly, and what he never should agree to. If Mr. GILES would make an amendment incapacitating all foreigners whatever from holding, upon any account, a civil office in America, Mr. H. would agree with him, because he did not want to see any of them in such offices, and conceived that Americans could legislate for themselves much better without any such assistance.

Mr. LYMAN said, that whenever a member of that House called for the yeas and nays, it was a rule with him to rise and second the motion, because the people had, upon all occasions, a right to know their votes; and even if only one member desires the yeas and nays to be taken, Mr. L. conceived that it ought to be done, as the thing was in itself so highly proper. Since he had the honor of a seat in that House, therefore, he had always seconded every call for yeas and nays, that the public might understand, as fully as possible, what they were about, and how their votes went. He said that it was extremely improper to ascribe wrong motives, when gentlemen supported a call for yeas and nays. It was sacrificing the dignity of the House to cast out such insinuations. When the call had once been made and agreed to, it would be very mean to retract it, to gratify any member. The public had always, and without any exception, a right to know what their Representatives were doing, and how they were voting, and he, for one, should adhere to the call.

Mr. W. SMITH said, that he had already put a question which nobody had answered, and on that account he should now rise and put it again. What are the emigrant nobility to renounce? When they come into this country, they possess not one privilege which is not possessed by every body else. He had expected that the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. GILES,) when last up, would have explained this matter, but he had not done it. The great bugbear was, lest a _ci-devant_ Lord may get a seat here, and that somebody may call him My Lord. But, even after you have got his renunciation of nobility, if other people choose to give him his titles, you can neither hinder nor punish them; so that the amendment is, to all practical intents and purposes, absolutely useless and nugatory. Some members of this House belong to the order of Cincinnati. If they come here with badges at their button-holes, can you forbid them? He wished that gentlemen would show what was to be renounced. There was nothing at all to renounce. The whole amendment is totally futile.

Mr. DEXTER then rose, but the House had become so impatient for the question, that he was heard with difficulty. He only wanted to ask whether the call for yeas and nays was withdrawn or not?

Mr. MCDOWELL said that he had already informed the House that he should insist on the call.

Mr. AMES then asked, whether it was not competent to put the previous question, viz: Shall this call be now taken?

The SPEAKER, in reply, said, that according to his judgment, the previous question could have been regularly taken upon any topic whatever, which produced a debate; but the House, by a recent decision, had determined that the previous question could not be regularly taken upon an amendment.

He was then asked, whether the call of yesterday was valid to-day, or if it was necessary for the members to rise over again? Mr. SEDGWICK was clearly of this opinion; in which the SPEAKER, after some consideration, concurred, as some gentlemen had deserted the call, and he, in reality, did not know whether a fifth part of the members would support a call or not.

It was then suggested, that there could not be a second call, if the first was disappointed; and some gentleman said, that he hoped no member would insist on a thing so extremely distressing to the feelings of many members. Several gentlemen had now attempted to speak at the same time, and the mischievous and unconciliating effects of the call were enumerated with much emphasis.

Mr. NEW at last came forward, and declared that he moved for a call. Mr. MCDOWELL said the same.

Mr. SEDGWICK then rose again. He appealed to the House, that, since he had a seat in Congress, he had never troubled them with a call more than a very few times; and he affirmed, upon his honor, that he never had moved for the yeas and nays at all, unless he was uncertain how the votes of the House would go. But the gentlemen who now moved for the call had not this excuse. They knew very well that they would carry their point, and that by a large majority; so that the insisting for the yeas and nays could arise only from a design that gentlemen who voted against the amendment should be held out to the public as wanting to introduce a nobility. He owed little to Mr. GILES for having withdrawn his motion, when others were so ready to renew it.

Mr. NEW, on hearing these remarks, declared that he should withdraw his motion, since so much had been said about it.

Mr. BLOUNT then rose, and said that it was needless to waste time, for the yeas and nays must and should be taken.

Twenty-three members seconded his motion, and the SPEAKER declared that the point was now determined.

Mr. DEXTER next rose, and observed that he had withdrawn his amendment, under a hope of conciliation, and that the yeas and nays would not be taken. But since this request had been refused, he should move it again, and have the yeas and nays upon that likewise, and before the other. He went over the beaten ground of the bad consequences of holding members up to popular resentment.

Mr. VENABLE said, that if the gentleman were so disposed, he should willingly try the question at once on this motion, without farther investigation about it.

On calling over the names, there were, on the amendment of Mr. DEXTER--yeas 28, nays 63.

The amendment of Mr. GILES was then taken up, and determined in the affirmative--yeas 59, nays 32.

_Ordered_, That the said bill, with the amendments agreed to, be recommitted to Mr. MADISON, Mr. DEXTER, and Mr. CARNES.

MONDAY, January 5,

THOMAS SPRIGG, from Maryland, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

MONDAY, January 12.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, on the bill from the Senate, entitled "An act to authorize the settlement of the claim of Samuel Prioleau;" and, after some time spent therein, the committee rose and reported progress.

_Defence of the Frontiers._

A Message was received from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, laying before Congress, for their consideration, the copy of a letter from the Secretary of War,[57] accompanied by an extract from a memorandum of James Seagrove, Agent of Indian Affairs. The Message and papers were read:

Mr. MURRAY then moved that the Message should be referred to the same Committee of the whole House, to which had been referred the memorial from the inhabitants of the South-western Territory.

Mr. NICHOLAS objected strongly to this motion, as showing too much deference to the Heads of the Departments. The paper in question ought not to have been sent to the House at all.

Mr. MURRAY defended his motion. He inquired how the gentleman proposed to get information? Was he to manufacture it himself, or in what way could he better obtain it than from the Heads of the Departments? He had not, for his own part, that species of jealousy of them which the gentleman last up had.

Mr. NICHOLAS repeated his arguments with some warmth. He said that the letter from the late Secretary at War was not official, but officious. It had a particular aspect which should forbid its getting any such mark of attention. It was neither more nor less than a commentary on some of the proceedings of the last session of Congress. If this was received, we might expect the table to be heaped with such things.

Mr. SEDGWICK could really see no reason to reject the motion. The PRESIDENT had undoubtedly a right to send the communication. The subject was confessedly of the utmost importance. The member asked, if the House were to close their understandings, and refuse all information from that quarter? He repeated that he could see no ground of any sort for refusing consent to the motion.

Mr. GILES was equally dissatisfied with the matter of this letter, and with the manner in which it had been introduced into the House. They were both equally exceptionable. The letter had come without any call. It was an Executive comment on a Legislative proceeding. It was a defence of a measure adopted by the Senate, and it condemned by implication another of that House. To Mr. G. it was a very extraordinary paper. The PRESIDENT was not to be supposed, however, answerable for the propriety of its contents. He should be very unwilling to take any notice of this paper at all. It had been justly remarked that it was a comment on transactions of the last session. A section of a bill passed in the Senate last session, and rejected by the House of Representatives, was inserted in it, and recommended. This paper might operate very materially on the deliberations of the House. This was a very bad precedent. The Executive had nothing to do with any question depending before the Legislature, and consequently had no occasion to send such a thing.

Mr. HOLTEN imagined that the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. MURRAY) had extended his motion too far. It ought to have comprehended only the taking into consideration the Message of the PRESIDENT.

Mr. MURRAY complained of the asperity of expression employed by a gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. NICHOLAS.) Not official but officious, and the intelligence artificial, were phrases to which he objected. The gentleman might have higher sources of information than he had. Mr. M. was willing to take up with information wherever he could get it, and he could have it nowhere with more propriety than from the national servants. It was no good reason to reject information merely because we had not asked for it. Mr. GILES had given a piece of intelligence which Mr. M. said was to him entirely new, viz.: that when the House wanted information, it was one of their rules not to refer for it to the Heads of Departments. The topic was great and important, and the House, before they rise, must examine in general into the situation of the South-western frontier, and our terms with the Indians. Mr. M. said, that the delegate from the South-western territory (Mr. WHITE) would certainly be glad to obtain the information conveyed in this paper. If any gentleman would point out any other way by which the House could, without absurdity, get from the PRESIDENT the information contained in this letter, Mr. M. should be willing to adopt it.

Mr. BOUDINOT was entirely satisfied both as to the propriety of the matter contained in the letter of the Secretary, and as to the manner in which it had been introduced into that House. That the PRESIDENT had a right to consult the Heads of Departments, there could be no kind of doubt. Mr. BOUDINOT then read the following passage from the constitution: "The PRESIDENT shall be Commander-in-chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several States. He may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the Executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices." Mr. B. defended the Message in all its circumstances, and in the most pointed terms. It was perfectly proper, and peculiarly so at this time. By the constitution, and by the rules and practice of the House, the PRESIDENT had a right to offer his advice regarding Legislative acts.

Mr. W. SMITH had seen much needless jealousy in the House towards Heads of Departments; and the present he thought a refinement on that side. There had been two objections to the communication from the Secretary of War, the one as to the matter, and the other as to the manner in which it was introduced to the House; as to the latter, it was said to have been obtruded unasked. In this last objection Mr. S. saw nothing. He read a precedent from the Journals, which he insisted to be exactly similar, and where Mr. NICHOLAS himself had been one of a committee appointed to examine and report. As to the matter, we might as reasonably object to the Speeches of the PRESIDENT, reminding the House of business which had been before them, or recommending subjects to their notice. He considered the objections of both sorts as entirely unfounded.

Mr. MADISON recommended the alteration suggested by Mr. HOLTEN, for restricting the motion of commitment to the Message of the PRESIDENT, and not to take any notice of the letter from the Secretary, which he considered as, in itself, extremely improper. It could not be meant as information, and the House had no occasion to take advice from the Secretary. The letter itself looked more like a forced thing, than any which he recollected to have seen since the establishment of the constitution. The subject, however, was delicate. The PRESIDENT had an undoubted right to give advice or information in any way which he thought best. It was totally ill-judged in the Secretary to have conveyed his opinion in the very words of a clause in a bill that had passed through the Senate last session, and been rejected in that House. The communication translated into plain language amounted to this: "The Senate last session had more wisdom than this House, and it is proper for this House to reconsider its proceedings, and improve by the superior wisdom of the Senate." Due respect should, however, be paid to the Message of the PRESIDENT. It ought to be taken into consideration, and Mr. M. was not willing to cast obstructions in its way, or to make needless objections.

Mr. DAYTON said, that he was for referring the Report of the Secretary at War, with the PRESIDENT's Message, to the Committee of the Whole, and that consequently he was against striking out the words which expressed that intention. If, by omitting to take any notice of the Report of the Secretary, it was meant to reject the information on account of the source from which it came, it argued such a degree of jealousy and distrust as appeared both unreasonable and unconstitutional. If, on the contrary, the object was not so much to reject it, as, by the manner of referring the Message, to convey any reproof or disrespect towards the late Secretary of War, Mr. D. should be still more decidedly averse to the modification proposed. He lamented it as an unhappy circumstance for this country, that the gentleman who was lately the Head of the War Department had thought proper to resign. That gentleman had executed the complicated and important duties of his office with zeal, fidelity, and ability, and ought to be protected from any proposition or remark which glanced unfavorably at him, or might wound his feelings at the moment of his leaving us. Mr. D. then adduced the Report of the Secretary of War in 1790, to the PRESIDENT, on the subject of the militia system, as a striking precedent. The Secretary there informed the PRESIDENT, that he had submitted to him a plan for the arrangement of the militia. The PRESIDENT sent a Message with the plan to the House of Representatives. What were the steps then taken in that parallel case? Was the Message then alone referred as it is now proposed by some gentlemen? The journals, on the contrary, prove, that the Message and plan were referred to the Committee of the Whole. It was possible, Mr. D. added, that the present Congress might deem themselves wiser than their predecessors. It was possible that many might think it safest to shut their ears against all kinds of information from the Heads of Departments, or even from the PRESIDENT himself. There might be some who would be willing to free the House of Representatives from certain obligations, or shackles under which the constitution placed them, by tearing out a leaf from that instrument, but he ventured to say that it was too soon yet to attempt it.

Mr. SMILIE complained of the style of the memorial from the Secretary of War, and, as a specimen, he read the following passage:

"It is a melancholy reflection that our modes of population
have been more destructive to the Indian natives than the
conduct of the conquerors of Mexico and Peru. The evidence
of this is the utter extirpation of nearly all the Indians
in the most populous parts of the Union. A future historian
may mark the causes of this destruction of the human race
in sable colors. Although the present Government of the
United States cannot with propriety be involved in the
opprobrium, yet it seems necessary however, in order to
render their attention upon this subject strongly
characteristic of their justice, that some powerful
attempts should be made to tranquillize the frontiers,
particularly those south of the Ohio."

In reading the above extract, Mr. M. went no farther than to the words _sable colors_. Mr. S. SMITH desired that he should read on, that the House might hear that no insinuation was intended, as if the present Government of the United States had countenanced such ravages. Mr. SMILIE said, that he knew what came after, but who would compare the first settlers of North America to the Spaniards, who destroyed in their mines thousands and millions of the Indians, and whose memory had been consigned to the execration of centuries?

Mr. AMES rose. Just when he had begun speaking, there came in a message from the PRESIDENT by his Secretary. On this, Mr. A. observed, that, perhaps, while gentlemen were now speaking there might have arisen a new subject of dispute. Perhaps by the new doctrine, we should reject all communications from that quarter. The message having been delivered, Mr. A. went on to remark, that turning loose the American militia to guard the South-western frontier, was a system of slaughter, of desolation. It was to make a Potter's field a hundred thousand miles in extent! It was a system to waste the blood of the white man, and to extirpate the Indians. The militia were not the people to prevent those kind of injuries against the Indians which were the cause of hostilities. But gentlemen who were now so delicate as to the style of memorials, would do well, if they extended that delicacy to other memorials which had been presented to that House, and referred by the consent of those very members to select committees. Papers had been offered to that House, wherein its conduct had been criminated and reprobated in the most unqualified language of detestation. Yet gentlemen, on some of these occasions, showed no resentment. Mr. A. ridiculed the idea of the present motion as introducing a new and dangerous precedent. The opposition to it came exactly under that description, for it was a direct attack upon the principles of the constitution.

Mr. FITZSIMONS approved of the motion. It had been asked if the PRESIDENT was responsible for the contents of this Report from the Secretary of War? Mr. F. did not think so; but if he had not communicated it, the member would have thought him responsible for the omission. The PRESIDENT had a right to ask advice from the Heads of the Departments. Mr. F. never knew a message from the PRESIDENT which required a reference, that had been refused it. As a matter of course, as a matter of right, it ought to be referred.

Mr. MURRAY rose and read that passage in the Report of the Secretary, which Mr. S. Smith had desired Mr. SMILIE to read, and which he had not read. [They are inserted both together at full length as above.]

Mr. NICHOLAS moved an amendment, and which was seconded, for striking out the latter part of the resolution proposed by Mr. MURRAY. This made it merely a reference of the Message from the PRESIDENT to the Committee of the Whole, and omitted all notice whatever of the Report from the Secretary of War.

Mr. SEDGWICK really thought this a squeamishness for which he saw no manner of foundation.

Mr. GILES arose. He said that a gentleman from Massachusetts had asserted that some members considered the whole constitution as entirely in this House. This imputation was a thing of so serious a nature, that Mr. G. wished the gentleman to point out the person to whom he alluded. If it respected Mr. G. himself, the assertion was unfounded. It was not true. He had the highest respect for every branch of the constitution. This was a charge frequently made by one side of the House. Gentlemen had called the contents of this paper information. He saw in it nothing but what the House knew without the assistance of the Secretary. He considered the report as an effort upon the opinion of this House, as an attack upon its independence, and that in a very indelicate way. He thought the report in all respects unworthy of the notice of the House. He hoped that this paper would not be committed, but that the Message of the PRESIDENT would be so.

[The passage in the report repeatedly referred to as having been borrowed from a bill passed in the Senate, last session, is in these words:

"That all persons who shall be assembled, or embodied in
arms, on any lands belonging to Indians, out of the
ordinary jurisdiction of any State, or of the territory
south of the Ohio, for the purpose of warring against the
Indians, or committing depredations upon any Indian town,
or persons, or property, shall thereby become liable and
subject to the rules and articles of war, which are or
shall be established for the government of the troops of
the United States."

This was a section of a bill which the Senate passed the last session, entitled "An act for the more effectual protection of the South-western frontiers," but it was disagreed to by the House.]

Mr. KITTERA considered this as entirely a dispute about words, or plainly about nothing at all. Gentlemen from Virginia were more jealous of the Executive than even the constitution itself. Mr. K. was satisfied that the PRESIDENT had a right to interfere in the Legislative proceedings with his opinion and advice. There was neither principle nor precedent for the amendment of Mr. NICHOLAS. The dispute was merely about words, because if the Message of the PRESIDENT was referred to a Committee of the Whole, the report in question would, in any case, be referred along with it.

Mr. AMES rose again to make some remarks on the danger of extending too far the privileges of the House of Representatives over the other House. The moment that this House is turned into a Convention, there is an end of liberty. As to impropriety and indelicacy of style, he could wish that the cognizance of members might extend to memorials addressed to the House, that we may not have addresses disrespectful to it. He entirely vindicated the conduct of the PRESIDENT as to this matter, and saw a peculiar propriety in his having made the communication at present on the table.

The question was loudly called for; but Mr. NICHOLAS rose in reply to Mr. AMES. Would any man call this a communication from the Executive? Mr. AMES spoke a few words in a low tone of voice. Mr. N. proceeded, "The gentleman prevaricates." "I prevaricate, sir!" rejoined Mr. A. Mr. N said, that at best he went off from the point. As to the precedent produced by Mr. W. SMITH, it was quite inapplicable. It bore no resemblance or connection to the one before the House. The other adduced by Mr. DAYTON was, he admitted, in point. But that gentleman would admit that it occurred in the infancy of the constitution, which was an excuse for it. He hoped that the amendment would go through.