Chapter LXXXIII: Introduction (82)

To those, he said, who regarded this second Treaty with Great Britain with disagreeable sensations--to those who believed that it did not contain in it such terms as the United States had reason to expect, and even a right to demand--to all those whose indignation had been excited at the unwarrantable outrages committed by that nation upon the rights of our neutral powers, who had seen their high-handed acts with astonishment, and the whole conduct of their administration towards this country with abhorrence--to those whose attachment for the French, nobly struggling for their liberties, was sincere, and who ardently wished that their revolution might terminate in the establishment of a good and stable government:--to all of this description, he could, with propriety, address himself, and say, that he harmonized with them in opinion, and that his feelings were in perfect unison with theirs. But if, he said, there should be found in that assembly one member, whose affection for any other nation exceeded that which he entertained for this, whose Representative he was--if there could even be found a single man whose hatred to any other country was greater than his love for America--him, he should consider as his enemy, hostile to the interests of the people who sent him there, utterly unqualified to judge rightly of their concerns, and a betrayer of the trust reposed in him. But, Mr. D. said, he could not believe it possible, that there were any such amongst them, and he was convinced that every one must see and feel the necessity of divesting himself of all his hatred, all his prejudices, and even all attachments that were in the least degree inconsistent with an unbiased deliberation and decision. The good and the prosperity of the people of the United States ought to be the primary object. It was that alone which their Representatives were delegated and commissioned more immediately to promote, and who would deny that it was intimately connected with, and involved in the vote they were about to give?

That the defects of this instrument of compact with Britain greatly exceeded its merits, was a truth which was strongly impressed upon his mind, long before he had heard the reasoning of the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. MADISON,) who had opened the debate. Although that gentleman had sketched its deformities in strong colors, and had in some instances, perhaps, exaggerated them; yet, Mr. D. said, he should not have contested the justice of the picture he had exhibited, if he had, at the same time, presented to their view, in true and faithful coloring, the other side of it also. Yet, this was surely necessary in order to enable them to form a right judgment. That member had declared that the House were now called upon to approve the Treaty, but Mr. D. was far from believing such a declaration warranted by the language or nature of the propositions on the table, to which all might assent, without pledging themselves to be the approvers of the instrument itself.

So firmly convinced was he of this, that, if he could subscribe to the truth and force of every objection that had been urged by that gentleman, he should, nevertheless, by no means conclude with him, that the House ought to withhold the appropriations, but, on the contrary, they ought to grant them. This would be his course of conduct, because difficulties and inconveniences alone presented themselves to their view and choice, and he thought he should act unfaithfully, if he endeavored to shun those on the one side only, without regarding the wide scene of dangers into which he might plunge his country on the other. What would be thought of that man, who, because the road he was travelling proved to be an uneven and rough one, should considerately betake himself to an opposite path without exploring the precipice that awaited him there? In the individual it would be deemed an evidence of madness, and such heedless conduct in that House could not escape the imputation of blindness. Under impressions of this sort, as to the importance of the vote he was about to give, he conceived himself bound to extend his views beyond the mere intrinsic merits of the Treaty, and to estimate the evils which must flow from a rejection of it. What, he asked, were these? Would a foreign war, and the dissolution of the Government be the certain fruits of a rejection, as had been represented by some gentlemen whose opinions he respected? These would certainly be amongst the most dreadful calamities which could befall a country, and, especially, one made up of Confederacies like this; and although he did not think them probable, yet, they must be admitted to be possible, and as such, justify those who allow them to influence their minds. But he appealed to those gentlemen who seemed to treat such apprehensions as perfectly chimerical, whether there might not be others, which, though less alarming than a foreign war and dissolution of the Union, would yet exceed--nay, very far exceed, those which are to follow the operation of the Treaty. The first fruit of a rejection would be, Mr. D. said, a claim from the merchants who had suffered by spoliations, to be fully indemnified from the Treasury. He called upon the members who, like himself, represented agricultural States; and he called, also, upon those who represented the landed and agricultural interests in the commercial States, to declare, whether they were prepared to burden their constituents with a tax of five millions of dollars to be thus applied?

He did not fear that he should be charged, as others had been, with sounding a false alarm. A proposition to that effect had already been laid on the table, and, what was not a little singular, it was founded on a presumption that the Treaty was to be annulled by a vote of the House, and was to derive its support from that very circumstance. Mr. D. thought it his duty to remind gentlemen of the doctrine uttered by the member from New York, (Mr. LIVINGSTON,) when he moved it, as well as of the extent of the principle contained in it. It is an established principle, said the mover, that protection is equally due to the person and property of all citizens, and that where the Government fails to protect, it is bound to indemnify for all the losses that may be sustained by every individual in consequence of such failure. They were, therefore, Mr. D. said, if they rejected the Treaty, to be immediately called upon to recognize a principle which would not only pledge them to tax their fellow-citizens for the five millions, at which the British spoliations were estimated, but, also, to make compensation for every depredation that might hereafter be made upon their trade; nay, more, for every injury that any American citizen might suffer through want of protection. He was aware that he might be told that the resolution embraced only merchants who had suffered, but he contended that the principle, when established, must extend to all; for he challenged any gentleman to show what better title they who inhabited the frontier next the sea, had to claim Governmental protection and indemnification, than they who inhabited a frontier on the land side? If, therefore, they were determined to compensate from the Treasury the merchant for his plundered cargo, they were equally bound to pay the frontier settler for his stolen horse; and there would be no bounds to such claims, or means to satisfy them.

It had been asked what would be the conduct of Britain, when they should learn that the House of Representatives had refused to make appropriations for the Treaty. He was disposed to think that they would not consider it a cause, or make it a pretext, for the war. Having in their hands the fur trade, the Western posts, and about five millions of dollars, of which they had despoiled the people of these States, they might probably sit down contented with the spoils they had made, after this Government had, by its own act, dissolved the stipulations they had entered into to make restitution and compensation. But what, in this state of things, would restrain their piratical cruisers in the West Indies? They, whether hoping that a war would be the consequence of annulling the Treaty, or that, as the two nations were no longer under that tie, they might again rob with impunity; and would probably seize on American vessels wherever they could meet them, and carry them into those ports in which corrupt Judges stood ready to condemn them.

So far as this question respected a dissolution of the present Government, it was certainly a very delicate one. Important as the subject under debate unquestionably was, he was free to declare it to be his opinion that no decision, however unfavorable it might seem, could justify, or would produce a separation of the States. He lamented that it had been conceived or mentioned by any one, for he should, whilst he had strength, resist such an event as the most fatal that could befall his country, and would cling to the Union as the rock of their political salvation. But he would not say, nor would any one else seriously say, that there was no room to apprehend that a rejection might produce suspicions, jealousies, distrusts, and discord between the one part of the Union and the other, and such a general fermentation in the public mind as never before prevailed.

He could not here refrain from making a serious appeal to the candor and good sense of the gentleman from Virginia. Having served with him many years in public life--in the old Congress, under the Confederation, in the Federal Convention, and for nearly six years under the present form of Government, he had, upon many and various occasions, witnessed the display of his superior talents, and the efforts of his patriotism, and derived from thence a conviction that, as at no former moment, so neither at the present, could he appeal to those qualities in that gentleman in vain. Mr. D. requested him to turn his attention to the last article of the British Treaty, and particularly that part of it which is in the words following, viz:

"This Treaty, when the same shall have been ratified by His
Majesty and by the President of the United States, by and
with the advice and consent of their Senate, and the
respective ratifications mutually exchanged, shall be
binding and obligatory on His Majesty and on the said
States, and shall be by them respectively executed and
observed with punctuality and the most sincere regard to
good faith," &c.

He called upon the gentleman from Virginia to show in what line or word of it the PRESIDENT had exceeded his authority, or, if that was not pretended, and he believed it was not by any one, he wished that gentleman to reflect for a moment how it was possible to refuse appropriations, and yet preserve inviolate the faith of this country, so solemnly pledged in that article.

Mr. D. concluded with observing that, although he was not pleased with many parts of the Treaty--although he had never felt any strong predilection for an intimate connection with Britain--although he had never seen their encroachments on the rights, nor their depredations upon the property of American citizens with an indulgent eye, or in the temper of tame submission, and although he had long ceased to entertain any respect for the negotiator, yet he should vote for the resolution, because he loved his country, and to that love, would sacrifice every resentment, every prejudice, every personal consideration. He should vote to carry the Treaty into effect with good faith, because he sincerely believed that the interests of his fellow-citizens would be much more promoted by that, than by the opposite line of conduct.

The question was then put on the resolution, which is in substance as follows:

_Resolved_, That it is expedient to make the necessary appropriations for carrying the Treaty with Great Britain into effect.

The House divided, forty-nine for the resolution, forty-nine against it.

It remained for the Chairman, Mr. MUHLENBERG, to decide.

He said, he did not feel satisfied with the resolution as it now stood; he should, however, vote for it, that it might go to the House, and there be modified.

The resolution was consequently agreed to, and reported to the House.

[The following statement will show the true sense of the House as to the expediency of carrying the British Treaty into effect:

Forty-nine voted for this expediency.

Forty-nine against it.

The Chairman, Mr. MUHLENBERG, to give an opportunity further to consider the resolution, voted for it.

Mr. PATTON from Delaware was ill, and was necessarily absent. It is, however, well understood, that he is opposed to the Treaty.

Mr. VARNUM was accidentally absent. He is no friend to the Treaty.

Messrs. FREEMAN, SHERBURNE, and VAN CORTLANDT are absent on leave.

Mr. DUVALL has resigned, and his successor has not yet taken his seat.

From which it is evident that there is an actual majority of the House against the expediency of carrying the Treaty into execution.]

SATURDAY, April 30.

_Execution of British Treaty._

The House then took up the resolution yesterday passed in a Committee of the Whole, for carrying into effect the Treaty lately negotiated with Great Britain: when

Mr. DEARBORN said, as it appeared that a majority of that House was in favor of carrying into effect the British Treaty, notwithstanding several of those gentlemen who had declared their intention of voting for it, had declared they thought it a bad Treaty, and as he wished to see the opinion the House entertained of the Treaty entered upon their journals, he took the liberty of proposing an amendment to the resolution in the following words:

"_Resolved_, That, although in the opinion of this House the Treaty is highly objectionable, and may prove injurious to the United States, yet, considering all the circumstances relating thereto, and particularly, that the last eighteen articles are to continue in force only during the present war, and two years thereafter, and confiding also in the efficacy of measures that may be taken for bringing about a discontinuance of the violations committed on our neutral rights, in regard to our vessels and seamen, therefore, &c."

Mr. COIT hoped the yeas and nays would be taken upon the question; which was agreed to.

Mr. GOODHUE hoped the House would not agree to the resolution; he, for one, would never agree to it.

Mr. SWANWICK hoped the amendment would be agreed to; for whatever some gentlemen's opinion might be with respect to the propriety of carrying the Treaty into effect, very few thought it a good Treaty. An amendment, therefore, declaring the motives which actuated that House in passing the resolution for carrying the Treaty into effect was very desirable; it would induce some gentlemen to vote for it, who would otherwise vote against it, and it ought not to excite objection. He appealed to the recollection of gentlemen, the arguments which had been used to enforce the necessity of the appropriations, which laid great stress upon the shortness of time which the most objectionable part of the Treaty was to be in force. He hoped, therefore, these arguments would not be objected to in the form of a resolution.

Mr. HILLHOUSE said, when he prepared the resolution on the table, he thought he had done it in such general terms that every gentleman might vote for it, without expressing a sentiment contrary to what he entertained respecting the Treaty. The amendment proposed, he thought very objectionable. It appeared as if it was intended to force gentlemen to vote against carrying the Treaty into effect rather than vote for the Treaty. For his own part, he could not vote for it, as it would be in direct contradiction to the sentiments which he had before expressed. He thought candor itself could not expect gentlemen who approved of the Treaty to vote for the amendment. It was also a rule to avoid expressing particular sentiments in resolutions of this kind. One part of the proposition, if it was brought forward separately, would be assented to generally, respecting the confidence placed in the PRESIDENT, with respect to future spoliations and impressments of men. In this proposition, it was said, the Treaty was injurious; he did not believe it was so. He believed it would be beneficial to the United States. It would not only be agreeing to an opinion which was contrary to the sentiments of gentlemen, but it would be passing a censure on the other branches of Government. Gentlemen were not required to say it was a good Treaty, and he hoped no one would be forced to say it was a bad one.

[The SPEAKER informed the House that it was then twelve o'clock, and as they had yesterday ordered that there should be a call of the House to-day at that hour, he should direct the Clerk to make the call. It was accordingly done. Messrs. BRENT, HARPER, and PATTON were absent. The two former came to the House soon after the call, and, on making apologies, were excused. Mr. PATTON was indisposed.]

Mr. GREGG said he should vote for the resolution in its present state. He did so, not because he thought the Treaty a good one, but because he believed the interest of the United States would be promoted by making the necessary appropriations, and because he was apprehensive worse consequences might arise from defeating it than from carrying it into effect.

Mr. MOORE considered himself as called upon to choose between two evils. He considered the Treaty to be bad. On the other hand, he was apprehensive that evils might arise, if it was not carried into effect, out of the control of that House. He had resolved not to vote for the resolution on the table; but he felt unwilling to take upon himself the responsibility of rejecting the Treaty, which had been sanctioned by the PRESIDENT and Senate. In deciding upon the amendment proposed, he wished the sense of the House to be taken; and if he considered that a single individual would be influenced to vote against the resolution who would otherwise have voted for it, he should wish them to be separated. It was his opinion the Treaty was a bad one, and he believed it was the opinion of a decided majority of that House. He wished the resolution to be so amended that the Treaty might go into effect by a considerable majority, as it would tend to lessen the irritation which had been raised respecting it.

Mr. DEARBORN said, in offering the amendment which he had proposed, he had no intention of taking any thing like an unfair advantage, or of producing what might be thought uncandid or unfair. His own sentiments relative to the Treaty were such as would prevent his consenting to do any thing to carry it into effect, unless with such a provision as he had brought forward. It appeared to him of such a nature, that he was not sure that he could bring his mind to vote to carry it into effect at all. He had supposed there could be nothing improper in taking the opinion of the House relative to the thing itself. If it might be presumed that there were but few gentlemen in that House who thought the Treaty a good one, he, indeed, thought there were none of that opinion, until then, though some gentlemen had praised it in their speeches, but which he had merely considered as adding weight to their arguments, he believed such an amendment was desirable.

As he, therefore, took it for granted that a considerable majority of the House were of the same opinion with himself, he saw no impropriety in having that opinion expressed. The propositions would not interfere with any bill which might be brought in, and gentlemen would have the discretion to vote for it or not. If a majority of the House thought differently from him, and chose to negative the amendment, he should be satisfied. Until he heard something further on the business, to convince him of the impropriety of doing so, he should wish to see a decision of the House upon the proposition as he had offered it.

Mr. HARPER said he was of the number who thought the measure of passing the resolution on the table a very expedient one; but whilst this was his opinion, he knew there were many, both within and without their walls, of a different opinion. He had no objection to gentlemen's expressing their opinions, but he wished also to be at liberty to express his. He should, therefore, propose that the mover should form his resolution as a preamble. This would answer the purpose of the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. MOORE.)

He said, when it was so formed, every one would have an opportunity of voting for it, and, if negatived, the resolution would stand as before. He hoped, therefore, the proposal would be agreed to.

Mr. DEARBORN said he considered his motion in the nature of a preamble; and he had no objection to any alteration that would make it more properly so.

Mr. KITTERA appealed to the candor of the gentleman who brought forward the amendment, with respect to the propriety of making his proposition a distinct one. He thought it would be extremely improper to pass a resolution which would say, "We pass this law, though we believe it to be a very bad one." He thought it also directly charging another branch of the Government with improper conduct.

Mr. NICHOLAS had no objection to the amendment being inserted by way of preamble. He urged the propriety of the opinions of members being fairly taken on this important business.

Mr. GREGG wished to offer an amendment, as a substitute to that before the committee. It was, in substance, as follows: "_Resolved_, That under a consideration of existing circumstances, without reference to the merits or demerits of the Treaty, and in confidence that measures will be taken by the Executive to maintain our neutral rights, it is expedient," &c.

This was declared out of order until the amendment was decided on.

Mr. VENABLE had no objection to the propositions being taken separately, as gentlemen would be then left at liberty to vote as they pleased. He conceived there were gentlemen who would vote for the proposition with the amendment, who would not vote for it without it. He did not know that any amendment would reconcile the resolution to him; for, though he should vote for the amendment, he would not bind himself to vote for carrying into effect the Treaty.

Mr. MURRAY said he had not spoken on the subject before. He was stating that the PRESIDENT was armed only with reason; he was stripped of all the symbols of power, and if the Treaty before them was carried into effect, with such a clog as the amendment proposed, he would be debilitated indeed. Their Executive had, in his opinion, done great things, and what would have covered any European Minister with untarnished laurels, by means of reason and policy; for, however wickedly courts act, they calculate upon the force of the powers with whom they treat. When a Minister goes to negotiate, they inquire into the naval and military force of his country, their appropriations for the army and navy, &c., &c. The Envoy of the United States would be a blank upon such an occasion. What was their interest, then? It was to give energy to their Government. Should they then pass the law in such a manner as almost to warrant the people in resisting it? The only thing which remained for them to do, was, not only to carry the Treaty into effect, but to carry it into effect with good faith. The object was not merely the posts--it was a conciliation of the differences long existing between the two nations; and it was their duty to execute it so as to produce the greatest advantage; whereas, if they were to agree to the amendment proposed, so covered with odium, it would weaken the power of the Executive, already too feeble.

Mr. S. SMITH said he had never seen any cause of gloom. He never doubted that the members of that House would come to right conclusions. They did right yesterday, and he was not afraid of their doing wrong to-day. In their decision yesterday, the Chairman had doubts. He decided in favor of the resolution, in hopes of its undergoing some modification--that modification was now brought forward. It did not entirely please him; but he thought it might be so amended as to please every one. He moved that the words "and may prove injurious to the United States," be struck out. Consented to.

Mr. MUHLENBERG said, when he gave his vote yesterday, he did it in the hope of a modification of the resolution taking place in the House. A modification was now brought forward, and he was ready to vote for some such modification. Whilst he made this declaration, he must add, that he was willing also to vote for the original resolution. He wished the sense of the House to be taken upon the two propositions separately.

Mr. DEARBORN consented to the propositions being taken separately.

Mr. S. SMITH moved to strike out the word "highly," so as to read _objectionable_, instead of "highly objectionable."

The sense of the House was taken, when there were 48 for the striking out, and 48 against it. The SPEAKER gave his vote in the affirmative.

Mr. KITCHELL said, he should vote against the proposition now brought forward, because he thought it wrong to hold up an idea which would have a tendency to weaken the Government. He looked upon it as injurious. The people would judge upon the Treaty from the instrument itself, and what had been said of it. They ought never to alarm the people unnecessarily. It was not from any fear of going to war, or any other apprehension but what he had mentioned, which caused this opposition in him.

Mr. GALLATIN said, if the propositions could be divided, no gentleman could reasonably object to the sense of the House being taken upon them.

Mr. PARKER said, he had not yet spoken upon this business. He would now say, he disapproved of the amendment, and should not vote for it. He thought the Treaty a bad one, and would not agree to vote for it by means of any modification.

Mr. HEISTER said, he should vote for the amendment, because, if the Treaty went into operation, he should wish the reasons which induced the House to agree to it to appear, on the Journals. When, however, the resolution for carrying the Treaty into effect was put, he should vote against it.

The motion was then put on the preamble, and decided in the negative, as follows: yeas, 49, nays 50:

YEAS.--Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, David Bard,
Lemuel Benton, Thomas Blount, Richard Brent, Dempsey
Burges, Samuel J. Cabell, Gabriel Christie, John Clopton,
Isaac Coles, Henry Dearborn, Samuel Earle, Jesse Franklin,
Albert Gallatin, William B. Giles, James Gillespie,
Christopher Greenup, Andrew Gregg, William Barry Grove,
Wade Hampton, Carter B. Harrison, John Hathorn, Jonathan N.
Havens, Daniel Heister, James Holland, George Jackson,
Edward Livingston, Matthew Locke, William Lyman, Samuel
Maclay, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, John Milledge,
Andrew Moore, Frederick A. Muhlenberg, Anthony New, John
Nicholas, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Francis Preston,
Robert Rutherford, Israel Smith, John Swanwick, Absalom
Tatom, Philip Van Cortlandt, Joseph B. Varnum, Abraham
Venable, and Richard Winn.

NAYS.--Fisher Ames, Benjamin Bourne, Theophilus Bradbury,
Nathan Bryan, Daniel Buck, Thomas Claiborne, Joshua Coit,
Wm. Cooper, Jeremiah Crabb, George Dent, Abiel Foster,
Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Nicholas Gilman, Henry
Glenn, Benjamin Goodhue, Chauncey Goodrich, Roger Griswold,
George Hancock, Robert Goodloe Harper, Thomas Hartley, John
Heath, Thomas Henderson, James Hillhouse, William Hindman,
Aaron Kitchell, John Wilkes Kittera, George Leonard, Samuel
Lyman, Francis Malbone, William Vans Murray, Josiah Parker,
John Read, John Richards, Theodore Sedgwick, Samuel
Sitgreaves, Jeremiah Smith, Nathaniel Smith, Isaac Smith,
Samuel Smith, William Smith, Thomas Sprigg, Zephaniah
Swift, George Thatcher, Richard Thomas, Mark Thompson,
Uriah Tracy, John E. Van Allen, Peleg Wadsworth, and John
Williams.

From this list it appears that the question was lost by one vote. The clerk, however, through mistake, reported the votes to be equal, viz: 49 for and 49 against the question, and the SPEAKER gave his vote in the negative, but the above was afterwards found to be the true statement.

Mr. W. SMITH was glad the motion was negatived. He did not wish either blame or praise to be cast upon the Treaty by the resolution passed to carry it into effect. He would, therefore, move to add the following words to the original resolution: "Without reference to the merits of the Treaty."

Mr. GILES opposed this amendment. He said, it would be an indirect mode of passing a censure upon the House for having undertaken to judge of the merits of the Treaty. He did not know whether it struck the gentleman in the same way, but he would agree it was improper to pass a censure upon the House. He hoped, therefore, the motion would either be withdrawn or voted against.

The motion was withdrawn.

Mr. WINN said, as it was his opinion, and the opinion of the generality of his constituents, that the Treaty was a bad one, he should vote against it.

The question was then taken by yeas and nays, and determined in the affirmative--yeas 51, nays 48, as follows:

YEAS.--Fisher Ames, Theodorus Bailey, Benjamin Bourne,
Theophilus Bradbury, Daniel Buck, Gabriel Christie, Joshua
Coit, William Cooper, Jeremiah Crabb, George Dent, Abiel
Foster, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Nicholas Gilman,
Henry Glenn, Benjamin Goodhue, Chauncey Goodrich, Andrew
Gregg, Roger Griswold, William Barry Grove, George Hancock,
Robert Goodloe Harper, Thomas Hartley, Thomas Henderson,
James Hillhouse, William Hindman, Aaron Kitchell, John
Wilkes Kittera, George Leonard, Samuel Lyman, Francis
Malbone, Frederick A. Muhlenberg, Wm. Vans Murray, John
Read, John Richards, Theodore Sedgwick, Samuel Sitgreaves,
Jeremiah Smith, Nathaniel Smith, Isaac Smith, Samuel Smith,
William Smith, Zephaniah Swift, George Thatcher, Richard
Thomas, Mark Thompson, Uriah Tracy, John E. Van Allen,
Philip Van Cortlandt, Peleg Wadsworth, and John Williams.

NAYS.--Abraham Baldwin, David Bard, Lemuel Benton, Thomas
Blount, Richard Brent, Nathan Bryan, Dempsey Burges, Samuel
J. Cabell, Thomas Claiborne, John Clopton, Isaac Coles,
Henry Dearborn, Samuel Earle, Jesse Franklin, Albert
Gallatin, William B. Giles, James Gillespie, Christopher
Greenup, Wade Hampton, Carter B. Harrison, John Hathorn,
Jonathan N. Havens, John Heath, Daniel Heister, James
Holland, George Jackson, Edward Livingston, Matthew Locke,
William Lyman, Samuel Maclay, Nathaniel Macon, James
Madison, John Milledge, Andrew Moore, Anthony New, John
Nicholas, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Josiah Parker,
Francis Preston, Robert Rutherford, Israel Smith, Thomas
Sprigg, John Swanwick, Absalom Tatom, Joseph B. Varnum,
Abraham Venable, and Richard Winn.

_Ordered_, That a bill or bills be brought in, pursuant to the said resolution, and that Mr. HILLHOUSE, Mr. SEDGWICK, and Mr. GALLATIN, do prepare and bring in the same.

[RECAPITULATION.

For declaring the Treaty highly objectionable 48

Against this declaration 48

The SPEAKER decided in the negative.

For declaring the Treaty objectionable 49

Against the declaration; some because they did not consider it objectionable; others because they feared making the declaration would be injurious, and others because, so opposed to the Treaty, as to object to all compromise 49

The SPEAKER decided in the negative.

For carrying into effect the Treaty; some because a good one, others because best to execute it under existing circumstances 51

Against carrying it into effect, because bad in itself, and notwithstanding existing circumstances 48

Absent on this question--Messrs. SHERBURNE and FREEMAN, on leave; Mr. DUVALL, resigned; Mr. PATTON, by illness; Mr. FINDLAY, accidentally.][78]

FRIDAY, MAY 6.

_Admission of Tennessee._

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the report of the committee to whom was referred the Message of the PRESIDENT, relative to the Territory of the United States south of the river Ohio.

Mr. RUTHERFORD hoped the committee would concur in the report. He had no idea of confining that Territory to the strict legal line. He did not wish to cavil with this brave, generous people. He would have them taken out of leading-strings, as they were now able to stand alone; it was time to take them by the hand, and to say, we are glad to see you, stand on your own feet. We should not, he said, be too nice about their turning out their toes, or other trifles; they will soon march lustily along. They had complied with every requisite for becoming a State of the Union--they wished to form an additional star in the political hemisphere of the United States--they have erected a State Government, and wish to come into the Union, and to resist their claim would be out of character. He hoped it would be agreed to.

Mr. DAYTON said, he disapproved of the report of the committee, and of the terms in which the resolution they had recommended for the adoption of the House was expressed. He could never give his assent to any proposition which expressly or even impliedly admitted that the people inhabiting either of the Territories of the United States could, at their own mere will and pleasure, and without the declared consent of Congress, erect themselves into a separate and independent State. Yet this seemed to be the spirit of the report under consideration, and what was still worse, it went, as he understood, to renounce any right in Congress even to deliberate whether they should become a member of the Union. He was by no means desirous of opposing the wishes of this valuable and enterprising people who inhabit the South-western Territory, nor of unnecessarily impeding the efforts they were making to throw off the Territorial jurisdiction, and establish a system of Government for themselves; but being aware that the steps now about to be taken would be regarded and pursued hereafter as a precedent, he conceived it important that they should, in this first instance of the sort that had presented itself, proceed circumspectly and rightly. He was willing to pass a law in the present session which should at the same time provide for erecting and forming them into a State, and for admitting them as such into the Union. They should thereby effectually promote the views of the people of Tennessee, in a mode which, by avoiding the violation of any just political principle, would entirely reconciled and render consistent the interest of that district of country and of the several United States.

Mr. D. acknowledged that he should have been much better satisfied if he had found all the people comprehended within the Territorial line petitioning for this measure, and if he had seen ingrafted in their constitution the conditions and restrictions contained in the ordinance upon which they found the right they were claiming; but he knew that unanimity was in no instance to be expected amongst a people so numerous and scattered; and he was convinced that they were bound by the conditions and limitations he alluded to, without an acknowledgment and repetition of them in their new charter.

Mr. DEARBORN said, as to the census relative to representation, it appeared doubtful, that, because that Territory had now 66,000 inhabitants, they were entitled to two Representatives, as the other States of the Union were represented according to the number of inhabitants they contained in the year 1790. It might be doubtful whether they should be entitled to an advantage which was not allowed to other States. It had been his opinion (and he saw no reasons to change) that if this Territory was admitted into the Union, it was not entitled to more than one Representative; and therefore it was not necessary to make another census. As to passing a previous law recognizing the Territory as a State before it was admitted into the Union, he did not think it necessary. They say they are now a State, and surely Congress would not say to them, You shall not be a State, or dictate to them what sort of a constitution they shall have, provided it be a Republican. The method taken for ascertaining their number of inhabitants, he thought, could not be objected to. He saw no reason to prevent them from accepting the Territory as a State of the Union: what number of Representatives they were entitled to, would turn upon another point.

Mr. BLOUNT said the House should have determined upon this question long since, as the government of Tennessee had a month ago gone into operation. The people there had chosen not only their State officers, but their Senators, and perhaps their Representatives, to come to Congress. The Governor had, from time to time, informed the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES of every step taken towards the proposed change of government. In July, he sent him a copy of the law directing the census to be taken; in November, when the census was completed, he sent him a copy of it, and a copy of his Proclamation requiring the people to elect members of Convention for the purpose of forming a constitution and State Government; and on the 19th of February he sent him a copy of the constitution, with notice that on the 28th of March, when the General Assembly of the State of Tennessee would meet to act on the constitution, the temporary government would cease; and this last information was, to his knowledge, received on the 28th of February--forty days before it was communicated by the PRESIDENT to Congress, and eleven days after it must have been known to the Secretary of State, if not to the PRESIDENT, that the State Government had gone into operation.

What would be the consequence, said Mr. B., of refusing at this time, and under these circumstances, to receive this State into the Union? Did gentlemen wish to re-establish a temporary Territorial Government there? If they did, he believed their wish would not easily be accomplished; for the people there believed, that in changing their government, they only exercised a right which had been secured to them by a sacred compact; and under that belief, they will be disposed to defend it. That right was, in his opinion, recognized by the Government of the United States, when Mr. WHITE was permitted to take his seat in that House as the Representative of the Territory; and from that circumstance they had reason to expect that 67,000 inhabitants would have entitled them, without scruple, to be a member of the Union. If the census was not a just one, or if there had been any fraud used in taking it, an impeachment would lie against the Governor, who, upon his responsibility as an officer of the United States, sanctioned the law for taking it, and acted under it after it was taken.

Mr. W. LYMAN said the subject presented itself in two points of view--as it related to the Territory being admitted as a State into the Union, or as giving them a right to send members to Congress. In his opinion, according to the ordinance of Congress, they had a clear right to be admitted as a State into the Union; for it was there said, that when they had 60,000 inhabitants, they should be entitled. No mode is pointed out how it shall be ascertained; but the Governor being expressly mentioned in the case where 5,000 inhabitants were to entitle them to a temporary Government, he thought there could be no doubt but the same way was to be observed with respect to their qualification for becoming one of the States of the Union. This fact, he said, came fully ascertained, and being so, there could be no doubt the right was clear. It was a right, indeed, which they could not deny, and, as a matter of expediency, it was not worth while to oppose it. He saw no reason why they should call in question the proceedings or the purity of the government of that Territory, so as to doubt their return.

Mr. DAYTON said that he preferred the formation of the South-western Territory into one State, to a division of it into two, and he therefore did not agree with those gentlemen who had advocated the latter idea. The people had requested to be united into one State, and he was for complying with their request, and for taking them at their word, rather than by subdividing to give them a double representation in the Senate.

Mr. SEDGWICK concurred in opinion with the gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. DAYTON); and if any gentleman understood him to say that he did not wish the State of Tennessee to be admitted into the Union, it must have been an error, for he had no such desire. But he was still persuaded that it was never intended that that Territory should have the power of settling the way by which they were to become one of the independent States.

What had been said by a gentleman from Virginia (Mr. MADISON) of their being in a degraded situation, because controlled by laws which were made by persons independent of them, would not only apply to 60,000, but to six persons. The question was whether they were in a situation in which they could claim to be a State? If they were, they ought to be admitted; if not, they ought not to be admitted. If the idea of the gentleman from New Jersey was adopted, they might be admitted at an early period. He had no idea of charging Governor Blount with improper conduct: he was entitled to his respect. If it was intended that these people should decide upon their own situation, they ought to do it in the way observed in cases directed by the constitution. Mr. S. proposed two resolutions--one for laying out territory into a State or States, and another for directing a census of the inhabitants to be taken.

It appeared to him that this was the way in which the subject should be considered: they should determine whether the Territory should be in one or two States, and before Representatives were sent to Congress, a census would be taken by authority of Congress. Words could not, he thought, have rendered more explicit the intention of the contracting parties than the words of the compact; and all this might be done in time for Representatives to be sent to the next session of Congress.

Mr. MACON said the chief differences in the opinions of gentlemen arose upon a subject which was not before the committee, viz: the number of Representatives to which this new State was entitled in that House. The question before the committee was on admitting the Territory to be a State of the Union. There appeared to him only two things as necessary to be inquired into: First, Was the new Government Republican? It appeared to him to be so. And, secondly, Were there 60,000 inhabitants in the Territory? It appeared to him there were; and, if so, their admission as a State should not be considered as a gift, but as a right. Their temporary government (by whose authority the late census was taken) had not only a Governor appointed by the Executive of the General Government, but also a Legislative Council. To admit this Territory as a member of the Union, appeared to him as a matter of course. It also seemed as if the Executive was of that opinion. The PRESIDENT, having been duly informed from time to time with the proceedings of that Territory towards being admitted into the Union, if he had thought they had been doing wrong, he would have set them right. It was also his opinion, that if they had passed a law directing a census to be taken, it would have been done exactly in the way the present had been taken. He thought the subject of navigation was settled by the Constitution of the United States; the waters in that country would be under the same regulations with all other waters in the Union, nor did he think there was any thing in the Constitution of Tennessee which had a contrary tendency. It appeared clearly to him that every thing had been fairly done, and that they had a right to claim an admission as a member of the Union.

Mr. BALDWIN said, had he belonged to the Territory south of the Ohio, he should probably have been for pursuing a different mode of conducting this business, from that which it seems they have thought proper to adopt. He should have thought it desirable, a year or two ago, to have obtained from Congress an act pointing out the mode of taking the census, and ascertaining the events on which they were entitled to become a State. He said Congress ought also, of their own accord, to have taken up that subject, and made those provisions, though not requested by the Territory; and it had always been with surprise he had observed that the first act for forming that Territory did not contain those provisions. He thought, as to the principle in this case there could be no doubt. Whenever the event happened of their having 60,000 inhabitants, as pointed out by law, their right to be a State took place. It was to depend entirely on that contingency; when that was proved to have taken place, they could not be debarred. There having been no mode previously pointed out for ascertaining this fact, only makes it more difficult for the Territory and for Congress to be satisfied of the fact of their actually having so many inhabitants, but does not affect their right. He thought it best for the House to proceed to examine their census and the evidence which they had thought proper to collect and bring forward in their own way. He was ready to allow that, for himself, he should examine it more scrupulously than he should have done, had it been taken under a law of Congress. But he had not understood many objections had yet been made to it. Perhaps, on further examination, it will be found fully satisfactory; if so, they must be admitted to be a State as a matter of right. They might have waited longer, and attempted to have formed two States; they have made their election of the other alternative. He thought it wise for Congress to avail itself of this opportunity of holding them to what they have chosen, and thus prevent future difficulties and misunderstandings.

Mr. W. SMITH said he was glad to find the observations which he made yesterday in some measure sanctioned to-day. He then recapitulated his leading arguments. It was said yesterday by a gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. MADISON,) that whilst the people of the Territory remained in their colonial situation, they were in a state of degradation; but, he would ask, at whose request they became so? Look at their request in the year 1790, as expressed in the cession act. And yet, in the course of a few years, without consulting Congress, in consequence of a census taken by their own authority, they proceed to erect themselves into a State, create a new government, and claim to be admitted into the Union as matter of right. Under their former government their member was admitted to that House; yet, whilst he holds his seat under that government, they have appointed other members to represent them under their new Government. The most regular way would certainly have been to have transmitted their request to Congress to be formed into a State. Congress would then have passed a law for taking a census, have fixed when the Territorial system should cease and the State Government commence.

He thought the business was of considerable consequence, and he was sorry it was taken up in so thin a House. There would certainly arise in a few years other new States in the Western country yet uninhabited, which might occasion considerable difficulties. They might make a census and say they had 60,000 inhabitants, when they had not half that number. He did not wish to keep the inhabitants of the South-western Territory out of the Union, but he wished them to be admitted in a constitutional mode.

Mr. GALLATIN was of opinion that the people of the South-western Territory became _ipso facto_ a State the moment they amounted to 60,000 free inhabitants, and that it became the duty of Congress, as part of the original compact, to recognize them as such, and to admit them into the Union, whenever they had satisfactory proof of the fact.

It was objected that, previous to the proof of that fact being given, it was necessary that Congress should have laid out and formed that Territory into one or more States, and that the proof of their number should have been given under direction and by order of Congress, the people not being competent to give the proof themselves.

Both those objections suppose a construction of the original compact between the people of that Territory and the United States, (of the act of cession of North Carolina, and of the ordinance of Congress of 1787,) which was inadmissible; for it rendered that compact binding upon one party and not upon the other. It is supposed that that ordinance, whose object it was to establish the principles of a free government, and to ascertain a certainty of admission into the Union, had declared that the time when those people were to enjoy that government, and were to be admitted as a member of the Union, depended not on the contingency of their having 60,000 free inhabitants, but on certain previous acts of Congress--in other words, on the sole will of Congress. Either you must acknowledge that their admission depends solely on the condition of the compact being fulfilled, to wit: their having the number required; or you declare that it rests upon another act, which may be done or refused by the other party; that Congress have the power, by neglecting to lay them out into one or more States, or by refusing to pass a law to take a census, to keep them for ever in their colonial state. Nor did the strictest interpretation of that contract justify the construction given by the gentleman from South Carolina; for the only meaning that could consistently be given to the words, "lay out and form into one or more States," was, that Congress had power to fix the boundaries of the Territory or Territories that were to become a State or States. They could have declared that that Territory should be one or two States; but if they had neglected to do it, their omission could not be plead against the inhabitants of Tennessee. The power given by that clause to Congress was merely to fix boundaries, and to choose whether there should be more than one State; but if they had not made use of that power, there must be one State, and its boundaries were fixed by the act of cession, so that nothing remained now for Congress to operate upon.

Mr. BLOUNT said, there was an absolute necessity for the clause which the gentleman last up objected to. Persons were daily coming to that Territory in great numbers. If the census had been required to be taken in one day all the people who had come into the Territory, with the intention to reside permanently there, could by no means have been numbered. It was not intended to give the officers power to take persons in more places than one, nor did he believe it had been done. He undertook to explain yesterday the reason why so long a time was given, but he seemed not to have been understood, which was, the difficulties attending the passage of the wilderness.

The gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. SMITH) had said, that his arguments of yesterday had been to-day admitted. If the gentleman had supposed that he had admitted them, he was mistaken. That he might not continue under the mistake, he would inform him, that what he had called arguments, were, in his opinion, mere quibbles, such as could only have been expected from a County Court lawyer, at the bar of a County Court.